Tuesday, August 22, 2006

Klanderized

A few people were asking me why, as a vocal Kennedy supporter, I haven't weighed in on the the whole Thomas Hubert/Borys AlphabetSoup case of Middle East foot in mouth disease. Well, my main reason is that I've been fairly busy over the past few days (and will be for the next few). But, more importantly, I really don't see this as a Kennedy campaign issue.

Take example one. We have a 19 year old kid who said some really stupid things on his blog. No one's denying that. But there are a lot of bloggers who say really stupid things. I couldn't imagine anyone thinking that what Shoshanna Berman writes is representative of the Ken Dryden campaign or Ken Dryden's position. So to even imply that this kid somehow represents Kennedy really seems unjust (after all, it's not like he's the campaign manager or anything). Thomas apologized and resigned over his comments so I don't see any need to keep picking on the kid.

The second example is of Borys who, truth be told, shouldn't have made public comments on this without running them by the party first. But, in all fairness, given that only six countries in the world consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, I don't think that part of his musings is as extreme as some are painting it to be. As for his other comments which may have offended people, Borys wasn't speaking in his role as a Gerard Kennedy supporter - these were his personal opinions. I didn't see a single blog attack claiming that Michael Ignatieff was anti-Israel after his main Quebec organizer marched in a parade which was described as follows "a virulently anti-Israel rally, and scattered amongst the crowd were a number of Hezbollah flags and placards".

The bottom line is that the Israel question is one of the most controversial in politics and there are people on both sides of the issue who go too far. With respect to the Kennedy campaign, I was very pleased to see their fast response to these incidents. In both instances there was a quick press release reiterating Gerard's position which has been known for a long time (since he was one of the first candidates to comment on the Middle Eastern situation).

42 Comments:

  • Excuse me for kissing ass but this is probably the most intelligent and thoughtful commentary I have seen on these subjects anywhere.

    By Blogger polopark, at 10:09 PM  

  • But, in all fairness, given that only three countries in the world consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization, I don't think that part of his musings is as extreme as some are painting it to be.

    The US, UK, Australia, Netherlands and Canada (thanks to the previous Liberal government) all recognize Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. The EU also passed a resolution in 2005 recognizing clear evidence of terrorist activities by Hezbollah though they do not maintain a list of terrorist organizations.

    Even Borys has backtracked on his despicable statements claiming he never made them (despite video evidence to the contrary).

    By Blogger Calicos, at 10:14 PM  

  • There is a difference here. I don't work for Dryden's campaign, nor am I on any executive, nor have I ever said Lebanon or Palestine shouldn't exist or are vile etc. Hezbollah yep, but I have supported the Palestinian people when no one in the Liberal blogosphere was, not you, not Cherniak, not Cerberus, not Fuddle Duddle, no one. So, hatred of Muslims or Palestinians or Lebanese people would be a stretch to say the least.

    That being said, this young man apologized quite quickly and should have been allowed to keep his position in my opinion. I don't think he should have been forced to resign, nor do I attribute his statements to the Kennedy campaign.

    I personally have more concern with the conduct and words of MP's working on campaigns such as Mr. Coderre, Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, and Mr. Telegdi. One assumes if these gentleman's choice for leader is elected they will have some influence on policy and direction of the Party and that is a great concern to me. I do believe this is an issue for the Kennedy and Ignatieff campaigns.

    This young man should not take the fall for people with far more influence and experience than he has. He was just an easy target.

    By Blogger s.b., at 10:22 PM  

  • Wow, sb. I don't agree with your entire statement, but this is the most lucid comment I've read of yours.

    Just saying...

    By Blogger knb, at 10:49 PM  

  • Yeah well, I work with teenagers at their worst. I've heard 17 year olds or 19 years olds whatever he is say the most outragious things and then feel badly about it afterwards. I've also heard them say amazing things. Things that are wonderful and surprising. Being a young Liberal is supposed to be a learning experience, being an MP isn't. The kid's frontal lobe isn't even fully developed yet ok. To have Kinsella come down hard on you at 17, god forbid, is a bit harsh to say the least. I hope Warren hasn't harmed Thomas' development.

    Anyways, give the kid a break. He apologized. Go after Telegdi, Coderre, Wrzesnewskyj, and Karygiannis (if he even matters anymore) They are the people with influence who should be held very accountable for what they say and do in elected office.

    By Blogger s.b., at 11:04 PM  

  • sb; Thomas doesn't have any title or position on the GK campaign and he never did.

    Calicos; I might be incorect. Wikipedia said it was only Canada, the US, and Israel. And it WAS a controversial issue back when the Libs passed it. My point is just that it's a controversial issue and far from extreme.

    By Blogger calgarygrit, at 11:15 PM  

  • Hubert said some pretty vile things and he should have resigned, but we should all move on.

    Thanks for the post CG.

    An inclusive party like the Liberals (and unlike the Cons, the BC and the NDP) has to accept within its tent a lot of people with a lot of differing points of view. But that doesn't mean they should be given positions in which they represent the party (and Canada) when they hold views that are not supported by the party. Borys should step down.

    Couple of corrections:

    - I think he has been reported as being 19 not 17. For what it's worth, he joined the party in May this year after being with the NDP according to TDH

    - 6 countries, not 3, call Hezbollah a terrorist organization (Canada, US, Netherlands and Israel in full, and UK and Australia for just their external security force). The European Union kind of dance around the issue, condemning the terrorist-like activities but not calling them terrorist (sort of like Clinton calling Rwanda genocide-like activities but not genocide, I suppose). Wikipedia

    - Kennedy's statement on the Middle East actually says very little and says nothing about supporting Israel or condemning Hezbollah so I'm glad he came out with such a clear and unequivocal position today. From his website:

    "I extend my deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the Canadian victims of the bombings in Lebanon. All of the civilian casualties in the latest escalation of conflict are tragic and highly regrettable and should give rise to a ceasefire by all parties. The safety of remaining Canadian citizens in the region should receive the Canadian government's highest priority. I agree with the G8 call for "utmost restraint" on the part of Israel as it exercises its right of self-defense and I deplore the fact that extremists from Hezbollah and Hamas have once again hijacked the agenda in the Middle East. The situation calls for urgent diplomatic initiatives to help change the predictable dynamics for further escalation now in place. As such, I welcome the G8 communique and I urge the Prime Minister to maintain the balanced viewpoint reflected in it, and exercise a constructive voice for Canada in this regard. In particular, I call upon Prime Minister Harper to use Canadian diplomatic resources to dialogue with all legitimate parties in the region to establish conditions to defuse the current situation. Canada can and should play a leadership role in working with the international community to find a peaceful resolution. I encourage the Harper government to do everything possible to act quickly and with purpose in this regard."

    Ted
    Cerberus

    By Blogger Cerberus, at 11:38 PM  

  • Calgary, I said I'm not concerned about Thomas. I'm concerned about Wrzesnewskyj, who does support Kennedy and as an MP work on his campaign. He will have influence if Kennedy is elected leader. This is a problem for the campaign.

    By Blogger s.b., at 11:38 PM  

  • "An inclusive party like the Liberals (and unlike the Cons, the BC and the NDP) has to accept within its tent a lot of people with a lot of differing points of view"

    oh brother, ted. but i forgive you.

    By Blogger Chuckercanuck, at 11:45 PM  

  • Thomas apologized and resigned over his comments so I don't see any need to keep picking on the kid.

    Exactly. At this point, it's just bullying and piling on.

    A sensible person would turn their attention to, say for just an example, Coderre, or Boris W., or Peggy Nash -- high-profile, public payroll, accountable to the public. To keep harping on Thomas is just being a jerk.

    Look, I used to really dislike Thomas - obnoxious, arrogant, stupid, braying. (I had no idea he was 16-19) But he is profoundly regretful, he's learned his lesson, and there's no need to keep at him - it's over. If you have a hard-on for fighting stupidity, great - but Batman doesn't keep kicking the Riddler, he moves on the Joker or Two-Face. If you want to tackle anti-Semitism and you're picking on Thomas, you're in neutral and you're not doing anything useful - go further up the ladder and then keep going.

    Argh, I could go on forever, so I won't...

    By Blogger Jason Bo Green, at 11:50 PM  

  • I am tired of the shit everyone says about Denis Coderre.

    The guy was there for a peaceful protest. He was the only politician there to voice his opposition to the terrorist actions of Hezbollah. He was even booed for denouncing violence by both parties : IDF and Hezbollah.

    Denis is not an anti-semite. He is just a good MP that stood up for the very large Lebanese community of Montreal.

    Alex

    By Blogger Alex Plante, at 12:37 AM  

  • Alex a "very good" MP would not have been at a pro Hezbollah rally.

    By Blogger s.b., at 12:43 AM  

  • It was not a "pro-Hezbollah" rally. It was a march for peace in Lebanon. There happened to be Hezbollah sympathizers, he didn't have anything to do with them. Out of 2000 flags there, there were 3-4 flags of Hezbollah. It's 3-4 too much but Denis had no control over this and has nothing to do with this.

    Most of the YLCQ exec was at that protest. They were there for peace, as was Denis Coderre.

    Alex

    By Blogger Alex Plante, at 12:50 AM  

  • That's the problem with such rallies. They don't have ironclad control over who is involved (it's pretty much ideological anathema), and yet if you dismiss the whole rally on the basis of the few extremists, you're essentially arguing that anybody who dares march for peace is pro-Hezbollah.

    We saw that argument before, in and around 2003. It led to a lot of dead Americans and a lot more dead Iraqis. Canadians had best not repeat it.

    By Blogger Demosthenes, at 4:11 AM  

  • I've got a pretty summary of what Hezbollah is all about at my own blog. Whether it's only three as the always-reliable and insightful Wikipedia says or every country in the world, Hezbollah IS primarily a terrorist organization that is responsible for the deaths of many civilians in every region of the world. Some have gone so far as to say that the are actually the A-Team of terrorism and more efficient and deadly than al Qaeda.
    Just because they do some social work as a side project should not create apologists for a group whose leader proudly proclaims that there slogan is, was, and will be "Death to America." To see Canadian MPs going wobbly on Hezbollah is deeply disheartening.

    By Blogger RGM, at 7:00 AM  

  • Hey it only takes a leadership race and a war in the middle east to get the Liberal nutcases to come out of the wood work. Can we start villifying all Liberals as being backwards and anti-semetic because Coddere is marching in Hezbollah parades and Boris is suggesting murdering thugs just needs hugs? Or are you only aloud to villify an entire party for the isolated actions of one member if its some backward hick MP from Saskatchewan saying something dated about homosexuals?

    By Blogger Chris, at 7:45 AM  

  • Alex, gimme a break already.

    Anyone who said Coderre is an anti-Semite is a fool making baseless accusations, and he has no control over who shows at a protest, you're right. I agree.

    He still is fairly deserving of criticism for a) signing a condemning statement of Israel without mentioning Hezbollah, b) not speaking out against the idiots who showed at the protest. Lie down with dogs, get up with criticism.

    I don't think he's an anti-Semite - at all. But I think he's a moron and I'm not, er, losing any sleep over people expressing their frustration with his idiocy. We deserve better than him.

    By Blogger Jason Bo Green, at 9:18 AM  

  • Borys AlphabetSoup

    ZOMFG!!!111! TEH ANTI-POLISHITISM!

    By Blogger RP., at 9:19 AM  

  • I didn't even get that alphabet soup thing until now. That's hillarious. I love it. I have to keep his name written down by my computer and check it every time I write it. It's a difficult name. Anti-polish I doubt it, but I have have tried very hard to get his name right when I didn't really feel like it. I have a difficult first name. It is constantly mangled. I don't care. It's just an unusual name.

    By Blogger s.b., at 9:44 AM  

  • The second example is of Borys who, truth be told, shouldn't have made public comments on this without running them by the party first.

    Fuck God, Cherniak said the exact same thing!

    So when Conservatives want their MPs to run public statements by the party first it's called neo-con anti-democratic pro-bush tendancies but when Liberals want their MPs to run public statements by the party first it's called discipline?

    I fucking hate Liberal hypocrisy!

    By Blogger What_The_Puck?, at 9:47 AM  

  • The idea that we will eventually have to deal with insurgents on some level to break cycles of political violence isn't new. I think that's what Borys was driving at.

    We may not like Hezbollah, but they have a lot of control in Lebanon (more than say, the government of Lebanon). They are, de facto, a player in this whether we like it or not and we will never resolve it without addressing them.

    As for the state terrorism comment, I think Borys chose his words poorly. But saying that Israel's ends don't justify the means employed is not an anti-semitic statement, and it's not even that bold. It's an opinion we can disagree with, but we have to disagree with it on a policy level - we can't just dismiss it as racist and inflamatory.

    Frankly, considering this question was put to him while he was standing next to a bomb casing in front of the ruins of a civilian apartment building - a little hyperbole might be forgiven.

    By Blogger Darrell, at 9:48 AM  

  • Oh yeah he's Ukranian just looked it up.

    By Blogger s.b., at 9:49 AM  

  • I think CG's balanced views are welcome and strangely absent from the whole brouhaha. Unfortunately, the Middle East is an area with lots of problems, and the fact that a lot of people chose to see everything in black and white terms is not helpful.

    It is sad to watch in the last couple of weeks hown anyone who says anything critical of Israel is branded as an anti-semite, or anyone suggesting that you may have to communicate with Hezbollah to resolve things is a terrorist sympathizer.

    It is irritating enough to see Harper parroting the US line without seeing the Liberal party falling all over itself parroting Harper.

    By Blogger Clarke, at 10:18 AM  

  • Everyone that matters considers them a terrorist organization.

    By Blogger Toronto Tory, at 11:00 AM  

  • Besides, according to the same source (Wikipedia), on 4 countries consider Al Qaeda a terrorist organization. That should put in in perspective.

    By Blogger Toronto Tory, at 11:53 AM  

  • Toronto Tory said...

    "Everyone that matters considers them a terrorist organization."

    You mean Gerry Swartz and Ms. Reisman?

    There are however, another 33,000,000 Canadians, most that do not share these ideas of bringing the Middle East War into Canada.

    This is a crass "neocon" attempt to blur the lines of the closely reasoned position taken by the Chretien government vis a vis the Al Quada/Taliban war in Afghanistan with NATO, and the American adventures in Iraq. The war between the Palestinians and the Israelis, are yet again, a different war.

    The Harpercons wish to blur these differences, and the Israelis wish to make "their" war into "our war".

    However, doing this is not only bad Canadian Foreign Policy, its bad Canadian Domestic Policy as well.

    Finally, I think that MP Borys Wrzesnewskyj has been smeared by the media. His comments were aimed at the fact that current Canadian law PREVENTED his Commission from EVEN talking to Hezbollah political spokesmen, and that is a travesty because it puts war ahead of diplomacy and killing ahead of talking.

    This is a shameful mistake installed by a careless disregard of Canadian interests, in favour of the interests of lobby groups touting such gag laws.

    I think that the pro-Israeli media in Canada gave Borys the bums rush and did Canada a disservice.

    We deserve better. We deserve to know what our Parliamentarians think about this conflict and Canada's relationship with it, and they cannot do their jobs with this over-reaching gag law that was generated in our zeal to protect the country from terrorism.

    Our laws should be well thought out and carefully reasoned, not generated as knee jerk reactions in the midst of a leadership campaign, and most certainly not as a result of "chequebook policy" written by biased individuals like Gerry Swartz or Ms. Reisman.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 1:11 PM  

  • Considering that Al Qaeda is, these days, more of a brand name than an "organization", that makes a surprising bit of sense.

    Besides, that doesn't even pass the smell test. Do you really think the French, who joined the US in Afghanistan in fighting the Taliban, actually don't consider Al Qaeda a terrorist organization?

    The problem with Hezbollah is that they don't play one single role and, thus, are difficult to classify. They attack civilians, but they also act as a paramilitary guerilla army and do all that social service work too.

    Plus, since they came into being fighting an occupation force, it's very difficult to simply toss them in the "terrorist" pile without raising questions about pretty much any guerilla army, including those the United States has supported.

    Doesn't mean they aren't anti-semitic. Doesn't mean Lebanon and Israel wouldn't be better off without them. It DOES mean that classification is difficult, and labelling doesn't serve as the trump card that some people seem to believe it does.

    By Blogger Demosthenes, at 1:18 PM  

  • Oh, and while I'm here... does nobody remember that this whole debate is a sideshow? The question is not whether Hezbollah is a terrorist organization or whether Israel has the right to defend itself. The question is where the line is drawn between legitimate and illegitimate tactics. "How", not "what".

    All this meandering BS about so-called leftist "anti-semitism" is just a smokescreen intended to obscure that basic point and exploit liberals' own sense of fairness and revulsion at racism and genocide against them.

    By Blogger Demosthenes, at 1:22 PM  

  • The Cyber Menace here to explain why this has become an issue with Gerard Kennedy.

    It's not so much about isolated incidents, although two coming together at the same time like this certainly doesn't help. It's about the kind of support Kennedy has attracted in his campaign.

    You can see a list of some of his supporters here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Kennedy

    Of note, especially regarding sensitive issues revolving around Israel and/or race, are:

    Omar Alghabra
    Andrew Telegdi

    In other words, when people are going after Gerard Kennedy on this issue, they're wondering if any potential silence is indicitave of something larger at play.

    That'll be all.

    By Blogger The Cyber Menace, at 1:26 PM  

  • How exactly do Omar and Telegdi get mentioned in the same breath here?

    By Blogger Darrell, at 1:29 PM  

  • Joe Green,

    Filling your post up with every random buzz word that you can think of doesn't make your points any more coherent. In fact, it actually weakens them.

    Your forget to mention "George Bush".. although you did manage to sneak the word "American" in there.

    By Blogger Toronto Tory, at 2:54 PM  

  • Borys has resigned his position on the Foreign Affairs Committee under pressure from the Jewish Lobby and the money from Gerry Swartz and Ms. Reisman.

    All ten candidates for the Liberal Party wanted to cater to these pro-Israeli biases and money. No one except for Borys wanted to defend the traditional Liberal and Canadian values of fairness, peace, order and good government.

    Time to turn in my membership.

    We are about to see a contest of whores selecting a leader who is going to run against another whore in Steven Harper and his American sidekick, Jason Kenney.

    As for me, I am going to do some more reading because something does not add up here.

    The traditional definition of "zionist" is one who supported a homeland for the Jewish People.

    If you endorsed the United Nations, as I did, then the decision to support the UN Resolution that created the State of Israel would make us "zionists".

    However, perhaps we in the West made a big mistake when we did that at the United Nations in 1948. Because what has happened, is all the Jewish terrorists that killed British military people, and blew up hotels filled with civilians, are now in charge of the State of Israel, spreading murder and mayhem throughout the Middle East, and these Jewish terrorists, unlike Hezbollah, Hammas and Al Quada; these terrorists DO HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

    And if the United Nations did make a mistake in 1948 by creating the State of Israel and brought so much murder, mayhem, warfare and impoverishment to the Middle East, perhaps Bolton is correct that the United Nations should be dismantled.

    History teaches, unfortunately, that "might is right". Political change does not normally happen through negotiation; it usually happens at the point of a gun as we can all see in Iraq.

    In which case who is to say that Israel which only understands violence, or Hezbollah that uses violence are wrong?

    Perhaps a nuclear World War Three is inevitable afterall.

    Well, at least, some of us tried to avoid that horror.

    But the "neocons" prefer parades, stirring patriotic speeches, medals, and of course body bags and disabilities.

    Jesus said of the end times, "there will be wars and rumours of war". Yes indeed!

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 4:01 PM  

  • Hahaha...I love the "Klanderized" bit...I'll give Warren the heads up.

    - Omar Soliman

    By Blogger Omar Soliman, at 4:15 PM  

  • The Cyber Menace said...

    "The Cyber Menace here to explain why this has become an issue with Gerard Kennedy."

    Gerard Kennedy is a traditional Liberal. But what we now have underway is a race to "neoconland" that is being orchestrated by the Jewish Lobby and money, legal or illegal, from donors such as Gerry Swartz and Ms. Reisman.

    The team of Swartz and Reisman quit the Liberal Party because they are migrating to their summer home in the Harpercon Party.

    So if you disapprove of these war mongering political parties, then I suppose all that is left is to park your vote with Jack Layton.

    I guess that means that the NDP are going to emerge as the Official Opposition after the next election, and perhaps might even form a Government.

    I don't particularly like the NDP socialist platforms, but these are much more preferable then the outright fascism that exists with Harper, and which is now being introduced into the Liberal Party of Canada.

    Its no wonder that respected Liberal Leaders like Brian Tobin and even John Manley are staying out of this fray.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 4:23 PM  

  • Fascism?!?

    Read a book.

    By Blogger Toronto Tory, at 4:38 PM  

  • Toronto Tory said...

    "Fascism?!?

    Read a book."

    No, you go back and revisit the definition of fascism. You will see that its based upon excessive "centralization" of "power" without "democratic" "accountability".

    Traditional "tories" used to distrust centralization of power. But the Harpercons have so centralized power, that Cabinet Ministers no longer even answer Opposition Questions in the House, EVERYTHING is now steered though the mouth of Jasen Kenney.

    I say it again. Necon fascism.

    Make my Day. Show it ain't so.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 5:48 PM  

  • Joe Green said...

    everything that proves he is a prime-time liberal tall forehead. Maybe he can replace Borys ??

    Cogent analysis.

    Enjoy your big tent.

    My vote goes eleswhere

    By Blogger Fred :), at 7:44 PM  

  • I've been disappointed before, but I'm again going to raise the very obvious possibility that "Joe Green" is a troll designed to make the LPC look bad. This refrain of "money and the Jewish lobby" sounds like a Parizeau '95 remix.

    All that we know Joe is right now is a "blank" Blogger login whose quotable quotes will be appearing on the Tory echosphere.

    By Blogger Jason Townsend, at 10:12 AM  

  • Jason, I am not a "troll", but you seem to have a lot of problems accepting facts on the ground, as they present themselves.

    Canada is a multi-cultural country. In order for that domestic policy to work and be effective, there must be genuine respect and fairness in the relationship between the various ethnic communities that exist in Canada. Some like the Jewish and Ukrainian communities have been here for quite a long time, while others, from the middle east are more recent.

    A key feature for domestic tranquility is that these communities NOT import conflicts from the "old country" into our communities here in Canada, and that we work to resolve conflicts that do arise within a context of Canadian law, peace, order and good government.

    Now, if that is a bedrock configuration for us, then its important that there be "no cheating". You cannot condone such practices as took place in Edmonton East with "ethnic block voting" which basically moves against the values and spirit of Canadian democracy. The same precise thing can be said for "ethnically based funding" of politics.

    I wish to be very clear. I am critical not only of turncoats like Gerry Swartz and Ms. Reisman who join parties, not out of conviction, but out of their own selfish self interest and personal gain. Their personal political life styles are disgusting, made worse by the fact that they are business leaders who should be much more mindful of their own shareholders, investors, customers, and employees. But apparently not. What they wish to do is to stir up shit between Canada's ethnic communities.

    Anyone with half a brain in this country would prefer to promote harmony between ethnic communities and to indeed export that harmony back to the "old country", rather then import centuries old unresolved conflict and bloodshed into Canada.

    For this basic idea of an "ethnic mossaic" to actually work in Canada, requires that the Federal Government not only be sensitive and alive to the detailed facts on the ground in all these countries, but to also place itself in the "balanced centre" of these arguments and disputes.

    The Harpercons have utterly failed to do that with respect to the Israeli-Lebanese war. But in so doing, they have undermined peaceful relationships that have been painstakingly built in Canada.

    Secondly, I think that its utterly rediculous to somehow imagine that Israel is free of criminals, or thugs, or spies, or terrorists in a fashion that is different from these same things that take place in every other nation state on this planet. The Stern Gang for example, murdered and maimed British military servicemen, civilians, women and children, in precisely the same fashion as Al Quada now does in London, in Madrid and in New York.

    Prime Minister Began of Israel was a terrorist by any objective assessment of his record. This is not particularly new or different from other nation states. Mr. Putin from Russia for example was a senior officer in the KGB that murdered and killed and terrorized many people in many countries. George Bush 41 was also a senior official, in fact the Director of the American CIA, that did most of the same things that Mr. Putin did for the KGB. They murdered and maimed hundreds of thousands, installed dictators and puppet governments, raped and robbed everywhere they went. What the Russians did in Ukraine, what America did in Indonesia, what Israel did in Lebanon, were all crimes against humanity and the responsibility for these crimes rest squarely on those that led these countries and led these forces.

    To somehow attribute "sainthood" to the Israelis, and "satanic status" to Hezbollah or Hamas, is to grossly distort the reality on the ground and to prevent further dialog, discussion and efforts to find peaceful resolution to war.

    I think that the likes of Mr. Swartz and Ms. Reisman have succeeded in stampeding the Liberal Party Leadership (with the exception of Mr. Dion), into a kneejerk reaction that uncritically supports Israel and falls into line with the Harpercons.

    That falls completely into line with the Swartz and Reisman new found friends in the Reform/Alliance/Conservative Party of Steven Harper. But it has done immense damage to Canada's ethnic communities, including the Lebanese and Jewish Communities.

    That is what I object to and do so strenuously. Our bedrock constitutional values should not be the subject matter for such cynical political manipulation.

    I have one other comment. With wealth comes responsibility. Some people have managed that better than others. Izzy Asper and his family for example, have been much more successful in responsible behavior as members of Canada's Jewish Community than have others like Swartz and Reisman. But even these are superior to Conrad Black, who is an accused criminal that used to strut about like a swollen peacock pretending to be a "conservative" but in fact craved fascist control over everything he ever touched.

    One other point. I think that people have to be particularly sensitive to some communities that have been historically attacked with genocidal ferocity. That includes not only the Jews, but others like the Armenians that have also been run down mercilessly. Or the Ukrainians that have been deliberately starved to death by Joseph Stalin and his aids, including some with ethnic Jewish origins, such as Comrade Golonovich.

    Canada's Jewish Community does not have to accept Golonovich's collective guilt in the genocidal killings of Ukrainians. Canada's German Gommunity does not have to accept Hitler's collective guilt in the genocidal killings of Jews. Canada's Turkish Community does not have to accept the Sultan of Turkey's genocidal killing of Armenians. But it behooves us to understand the pain and suffering that continues to resonate down through the generations of these victims. THAT is where ALL Canadian Governments have always stood --- until now.

    And that means to thoughtful Canadians that we ought to attack the Harper and Kenney policies as being "racist" and "prejudiced". The Harpercons have very skillfully hidden these prejudices and the current media circus illustrates exactly how and why they are so dangerous. The techniques you see unfolding in Ottawa are fascist techniques, they are about total and absolute centralized authority, and THEY ARE DANGEROUS.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:21 AM  

  • The "centraliziation" refers to the centralization of control of industry, etc.

    Harper is the polar opposite of that.

    By Blogger Toronto Tory, at 1:36 PM  

  • By the way, here's another definition for you:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinfoil_hat

    It's appropriate for you.

    By Blogger Toronto Tory, at 2:06 PM  

  • jason townsend,

    joe green is very real.

    you wanted David Orchard and his gang.

    to quote George Kostanza's father ----

    you got 'eeeeeeemmmmmm.

    By Blogger Chuckercanuck, at 9:02 PM  

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