Monday, January 09, 2006

Bill Lee Returns

If you need more proof that the people running this Liberal campaign should never be allowed anywhere near a national campaign ever again, look no further than this quote in today's Hill Times:
"You'll see some action this week, we have no option. You might see some incidents in which we'll try to frustrate Harper. Unlike last time when [John] McCallum and Judy Sgro were given this task and they failed to deliver, this time we can't afford not to," said the source pointing out that this would be one of the tactics the Liberals would use, on top of negative ads and aggressively dissecting the Conservative Party's policy stands.

Yes, the Liberals are seriously considering to revive the disastrous heckling incident from last election. I can honestly say that a major factor in deciding who to support in the next Liberal leadership race will be to pick a candidate that the current crew of jokers running this campaign want nothing to do with.

26 Comments:

  • Maybe they should get a bunch of old speeches of Harper's...

    oh, they tried that.

    Wait, they could declare Harper as unfit to lead because he hates Canada.

    oh, yeah. done.

    Maybe they could claim to be the only federalist voice in Quebec.

    shoot! Marc Garneau blew that bridge up.

    Have they checked the numbers of Tory promises? I bet it adds up to a whole lot of red ink!

    what? they did that too?

    hey, this might work: provoke the Americans into looking like bullies and stand up to them.

    what? really? where have I been.

    oh well, I'm out of ideas. Good luck Grits.

    By Blogger Chuckercanuck, at 1:08 PM  

  • They actually said "We have no option"? Gaah!

    By Blogger JP, at 1:13 PM  

  • JoshP you've hit the nail on the head.

    By Blogger NorthBayTrapper, at 1:21 PM  

  • I love to see the leaders of our 1.1 trillion dollar economy, the leaders of 31 million wonderful souls, acting like 8 year olds.

    I predict the Liberals will throw snowballs at Harper. If things get nasty, snowballs packed with ice.

    If we're lucky, we'll hear something about "fifth business" from the "fourth estate."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:54 PM  

  • Be cautious. Liberals with their backs against the wall can be very, very dangerous. Just recall the last campaign.

    The coup-de-grace of Liberal spin is in full flight right now:

    - McCallum in Sask arguing soccer fields are needed more than prisons ... unfortunately followed by the rather nasty but abortive kidnapping of a toddler in that province.

    - Casting the CPC platform budget in doubt ... deficit, deficit, deficit ... false, but what do they care about the truth at this point.

    - Getting the MSM to op-ed pieces like "Harper's musing on a Majority" ... false, but in flight nevertheless.

    - The Gloss & Moan (and to a lesser extent, so far, the Red Star) giving more favourable placement to Liberal than CPC "newspieces".

    - The so-2004-ish negative attack ads, complete with gun and tanks.

    And so on. I think it's the last hurrah, but don't count them out. At the very least it will have some effect on the seat counts on Jan 23rd. After all, no one wants just 2 seats left.

    By Anonymous Erik Sorenson, at 2:15 PM  

  • I'm loving seeing the demise of the Liberal Party.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:21 PM  

  • Frank McKenna must see something in these guys...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:49 PM  

  • Panic. I think Liberal party has to complain to Elections Canada about: "Hands in my pocket" ad. It is too catchy and reminds me Liberals every time it is on TV.

    By Anonymous Sunny Face, at 3:10 PM  

  • These people actually think the problem with the heckling incidents was that Sgro and McCallum "failed to deliver".

    I'm a Tory and a chronic pessimist. But stuff like this is making it hard to worry that these guys will pull it out of the hat at this point.

    By Blogger RWA, at 3:19 PM  

  • RWA - that was very funny and on point.

    By Blogger Chuckercanuck, at 3:28 PM  

  • CG, may I ask what the title of your post means? My knowledge of Bill Lee is limited to having recently read Greg Weston's "Reign of Error", which was largely sympathetic to Lee and blamed Turner for the problems in '84. I take it you think a lot of the blame for that debacle could be laid on Lee?

    Interesting that Herle advertised his own legend at the August caucus meeting, and if today's polls are to be believed he's on his way to managing the worst Grit popular vote performance ever.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:33 PM  

  • You're right CG, I'm really disgusted by how eye-poppingly, jaw-droppingly BAD this campaign has been. I mean, it's as if they were caught completely unawares, as if didn't know an election was coming or something. These jokers should have known that the Tories had been preparing since the last campaign and were going to come out swinging for this one, and they should have known that they wouldn't be able to rely on the gaffes like last time, since the Harper team has pretty much duct-taped every Conservative candidate and made sure they don't have any "I would never employ a gay person/pro-choicers are terrorists/to hell with the Charter" incidents. Of course, they still think those things, they just aren't SAYING them, and that's a problem. A big one.

    I get the feeling that the people around Martin truly believe that he's some sort of messiah. The way Scott Reid talks about Paul Martin, it's as if he's the second coming or something. He gets teary-eyed about it sometimes. It's really a great insight into the minds of these guys, and into why they're screwing up so badly. They've got their noses so firmly entrenched in Martin's ass, and their eyes so filled with starry-eyed wonder, that they can't imagine why he isn't winning this campaign on his charisma alone.

    I swear to god, if Martin loses this campaign, and then decides he's going to stay on as Liberal leader... there's gonna be a coup. And it'll be nasty. If there's one thing Liberals don't tolerate, it's losers. And while I don't think Martin himself is terrible, the people he surrounds himself with are losers. For the sake of the party and for the sake of the country, we need someone who can win and stop Stephen Harper from fucking everything up. And if Martin isn't it, he's simply gotta go.

    By Blogger Clear Grit, at 4:03 PM  

  • Maybe they can have someone heckle Harper during the debates. It is probably the only way they can stop this Juggernaut. In other news, maybe Paul can finally go out and compete in the local dairy contests with his award winning cows, as he was thinking of (and unfortunately did not follow through with) doing a few short years ago. Paul has had a good run, he will have been PM for nearly 26 months, which is a lot longer than these guys were in there with Turner. They can all walk away with their heads held high, Herle can look at Reid, who can look at Murphy, who can look at Klander, who can look back at Herle, who can look over to his business partner Alboim, who can look over at Francis Fox to forge a signature on a document that says they did one hell of a job.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:13 PM  

  • http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060109/ca_pr_on_na/fedelxn_poll
    OTTAWA (CP) - A new poll suggests the Conservatives have vaulted into a nine-point lead over the ruling Liberals with less than two weeks to election day.
    ADVERTISEMENT
    click here

    The Decima Research poll, conducted Jan. 5-8, found Stephen Harper's Conservatives had climbed to 36 per cent support among respondents who were decided or leaning and likely to vote.

    Paul Martin's Liberals, meanwhile, had plummeted to 27 per cent, their support among left-of-centre respondents eroded by the New Democratic Party while their support outside major urban centres and in Quebec was eroded by the Tories.

    NDP support was up slightly to 20 per cent.

    Support for the separatist Bloc Quebecois was down to 11 per cent.

    Decima surveyed 1,021 people for the poll, made exclusively available to The Canadian Press.

    A sample this size has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points 19 times in 20.

    More information can be found at www.decima.com.

    Conservatives: 36%
    Liberals: 27%
    New Democrats: 20%
    Bloc Quebecois: 11%

    other polls according to Andrew Coyne or one if his comentators that there is an Ipsos-Reid poll to be released tonight on Global National which shows an 11-point gap. Also there is an EKOS poll with results so shocking that they went back out into the field to confirm them.

    I don't want to seem cocky but I think the Liberals are done.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:17 PM  

  • Quote from Blue Grit; "For the sake of the party and for the sake of the country, we need someone who can win and stop Stephen Harper from fucking everything up."

    What an arrogant asshole! Who in the hell has _ucked everything up!

    Who has let the separatists get on a break away?

    Stand back now and watch a country restore its pride, both domestically and internationally. Your threshold for scandal, corruption and lack of morals and integrity knows no bounds.

    As in the words of Paul Martin, Give me a break.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 4:43 PM  

  • No real reason other than short-sightedness to be afraid of a Harper Majority

    I'm realitively ambivilent regarding party partisanship, I'm generally more about the Candidate.

    This time (as in the last several occasions) the Candidate for my riding is Harper, who I've met, and generally like.

    That said, I'm no bible thumper, and I'm not a keener on denial of rights which seem logical and relatively easy to implement.

    However, for myself I feel Stephan has addressed the issue of Same-Sex marriage, abortion, and other such issues from his position, and it has satisfied my fears. I have had the luxury of hearing it straight from the horse's mouth, which most Canadians haven't, so I'm at a bit of an advantage there.

    Regardless of the position of the Conservative Party, or Harper himself, there are some practical realities to running a government, or running a government in a second term. They are daunting to say the least.

    So if you were to ask me how would I feel about a Conservative Majority, I'd say fine, because Harper would have to work hard in the 4 to 5 years he had in an initial term, to be able to expect a second term. I believe he'd spend most of the that time tearing down the useless programs and the unbelievably ungainly Government we have allowed to be created. That would be the first term... cleaning house,and getting the country on a straight path.

    I believe that he would attempt a second term on the basis of Constitutional reform. He might get a mandate, or he might not. Regardless, he'd have to work damn hard and prove a hell of lot to expect a second mandate, much less one which would crack open the Constitution.

    Primarily, he would have to prove beyond anyone's doubt that he can indeed work with the other parties, that his relationship with the provinces was strong, and that he was essentially going in the direction the majority of voters wanted.

    Believe it whether you will or not, but the Constitution is a shakey piece of legislation, and sooner or later, we as a nation are going to have to revisit it in order to ensure the stability of the nation.

    This is an undeniable fact, that goes well beyond party partisanship.

    The United States is a good example of what happens when you throw a constitution together without foresight... It caused a civil war.

    Too much is undefined, too much is left to assumption, and as a result the courts are left to define the meaning and intent which by default forces legislation in response. This is not what the courts are for, they are there to insure that the principles of the Constitution are maintained, and to assist in the interpretation of the Constitution when it realms into area's the Constitution fails to define altogether. This should not happen often.

    If it had been better crafted it would have eliminated the need for arguing things like same sex marriage. It should have been more anticipatory, and not reactionary in it's design. The consequences of this will more and more pit the people of this nation against each other as a result.

    Make no mistake about it, Harper is looking to revisit the Constitution, his positioning for Quebec highlights it. In order to do that, he will need to prove to the nation that he is responsible enough to make the attempt.

    That's a tall order, and one which can only happen if he has a majority. A minority won't do it, and if he somehow fluked a majority, he will still be walking on eggshells in his first term, and won't be able to afford any mistakes.

    I think most Canadians are a little scared of the Constitution, and no one is giving anyone free reign to make modification without that someone looking and acting like a superhero.

    That might end up being Harper, or it might not, regardless it isn't a worry for the next 4 or 5 years.

    As I said previously, I don't personally vote based on party partisanship, I vote for the person, but it's becoming glaringly obvious that more and more people are becoming ignorant as to what occurs on a Federal level, and that in and of itself is a dangerous situation. If people had been watching, the Liberal elite would never have gotten so far off track in the first place.

    That, in my opinion, is the fundamental truth of this election. Martin might be a nice guy, but even if he never had a thing to do with any of the shenanigans that have made so much press, he would still be guilty of not knowing what his own people are up to when he turns his back, and that is exactly what I don't want in my PM. It show's that he's lax on discipline, and doing a poor job keeping his people in line.

    Chretien, for all that I disliked him, was without question a very strong, and cognizant PM. He knew what was going on inside his party, and he had eyes in the back of his head for trouble.

    Why else would it have taken Martin 12 years to get rid of him?

    The truism about a majority Government is that it can only do so much within the limits of the MP's which constitute it's strength. Do you really believe that a MP who brought forward a motion which blatantly constituted a violation of an individuals rights or a groups rights would be favored by all the MP's of a party.

    Any extremism inside the PC party would falter in a majority situation from within the party itself. No ones putting anything forward that smacks of starting a rebellion within their own rank and file. I don't think an Ontario MP or a Quebec MP would favor repealing Abortion legislation for example, and in a majority scenario, it goes without saying that you need those MP's on your side, otherwise you risk your majority.

    Don't forget, that shoe fits both feet. There are as many nutbar liberals as there are nutbar conservatives. It's the responsibility of the electorate to make sure that those types of people don't get a leg up, and that means looking beyond Party loyalty.

    Martin had a chance, and he blew it, showing he's not capable of leading his own party, much less the nation. Harper deserves the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I'm prepared to give Stephan that chance. If he blow's it, I'll cheerfully vote his ass out the next time around, perhaps it might even be a Liberal or a Green I vote for... either way, I want some results, and I want some honesty in Ottawa. I want to see someone who will address my concerns as an Albertan, a Westerner, and as a Canadian.

    You’ll notice I’m placing Canada last, that’s because right now Canada isn’t a fair and democratic country, and until the advent of true electoral reform, I refuse to acknowledge the true legitimacy of any party as a voice of the people with a mandate by the majority.

    Until my vote as an Albertan equals the vote of someone in 7 of the other overly entitled provinces, not one fourth of a vote, or one half of a vote… Until I see that the rest of Canada acknowledges the fiction of our current democracy, and is prepared to redress it, I’m for Alberta.

    The east doesn’t recognize this simple fact… that as an Albertan, or a person from BC or Ontario for that matter, I’m a second class citizen, and my voice is diminished in the name of a Constitution that was created by bribing small provinces with more seats in the commons and the senate than they deserve.

    As I've noticed from the writings and reports, many people believe the nation is in good shape... you are so kidding yourselves it isn't even funny. Let me give you an example:

    A friend of mine who lived in Calgary for 15 years went back to China recently, he lives in Bejing now. He has two children, one is 10, the other 12. Both were A+ students in Calgary, and after having finished the equivalancy exams for public school, my friend was informed that his oldest would have to start in Grade two, and the youngest in grade one, because they were way to far behind the students of their age groups. Those kids took that test 3 times each, and each time ended up in the same place. My friend ended up putting his kids in the American private school there at 12k per year, so as to avoid the humiliation his children would have suffered. By Chinese educational standards, our children are inferior. If you are a parent, you should be worried about that.

    Another example is the manufacturing sector. Most, and I mean most, financial experts everywhere but Canada state that the Canadian Manufacturing industry will be toast in less than a decade unless major, and I mean take a scalpel to it major, repair work is done to upgrade, modernize, and diversify our manufacturing industries... yet Ottawa goes blithly along like everything is okay... ignoring the loss of jobs, the bankruptcy filings, the attempts to bust unions... all the indicators that say your in trouble.

    This is not fiction, this is fact... So if you as a voter are frightened of Harper, or Layton, or Martin, or whoever, good!!! It's about time this nation got off its butt and started to pay attention.

    Start there, and clean up Ottawa, and I'll start waving my Canada flag again. Until then, I have to cover my own butt.

    By Anonymous Joe Calgary, at 5:01 PM  

  • Thanks for that book Joe. No nutbar you. Couple things, however:

    1. What manufacturing bankruptcies are you referring to?
    2. There is no abortion legislation to repeal, and if there was its job would be to limit/regulate abortions.
    3. Chretien had so many eyes in the back of his head he missed the coup Martin executed.
    4. The US constitution didn't cause the civil war. Freeing slaves did (and I assume you don’t mean to argue the federal government shouldn’t have the power to free slaves, etc.).
    5. Ditto the Canadian constitution. With the exception of the Senate, it does pretty well. I don’t think there’s an older surviving written constitution other than that of the US.

    By Blogger matt, at 5:47 PM  

  • I'm excited.

    The Liberals are so badly behind with such an inept leader that the negative ads (which everyone agrees they must run) should become very entertaining indeed!

    - CPC supporter.

    By Anonymous Chris from Victoria, BC, at 5:49 PM  

  • Let's get Volpe a bull-horn! If you thought he sucked before, just wait until he starts yelling!

    By Anonymous the true grit, at 6:35 PM  

  • Blue Grit, obviously you haven't noticed that the country is already f'd up. Supposedly Canada is in good shape but our healthcare system is disastrous (I could tell you stories that would curl your toes), our military is decimated, our native reserves are in a mess, our relations with the US are at an all-time low, people are requiring dual incomes to own a home, nursing homes are past full up,... need I go on, cuz I will...

    By Blogger Lanny, at 6:37 PM  

  • Anon; I've read Reign of Error and I'll agree that a lot of the error can be put on Turner. But 1984 was the last time we saw a Liberal campaign this bad so Lee gets the unfortunate guilt by association in the title.

    By Blogger calgarygrit, at 7:05 PM  

  • Time to warm up the Volpe for Leader Campaign.

    Joe Green, you must be a Volpe man.

    Volpe! Volpe!

    By Blogger Chuckercanuck, at 7:33 PM  

  • Hey Mr. Anonymous:

    "What an arrogant asshole! Who in the hell has _ucked everything up!"

    Right back at you, but I'll add "coward" to that. Making anonymous slurs over the internet sure is a sign of maturity.

    I happen to think a Stephen Harper government would be disastrous for this country. I do not see how this is "arrogant". Of course, that's a common Conservative buzz-word these days, so I can imagine why you'd use it, it's one of those things where if you say it enough times it just becomes true.

    By Blogger Clear Grit, at 10:16 PM  

  • Blue Grit, give me a break. Who could f*ck things up more than they already are? It's definitely time for the Liberals to take a long walk in the snow. With any luck, Scott Reid & John "don't you dare ask me about that ad" Duffy will succumb to hypothermia.

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