CalgaryGrit: The New Leader of the Opposition

Friday, May 05, 2006

The New Leader of the Opposition

With the Liberals in the midst of a leadership race, it appears that it won't so much be Bill Graham who is Stephen Harper's biggest foe. Rather, Dalton McGuinty seems to have taken on the role of opposition leader to Stephen Harper. It makes sense; with Ralph Klein neutered and Jean Charest being courted, an Ontario-Ottawa confrontation was almost inevitable.

While McGuinty has been critical of the PM, Stephen Harper made it personal yesterday by introducing John Tory as "the next Premier of Ontario". At the same time, Dalton must be growing a little bit jealous of Jean Charest who appears to get weekly dates with Harper, photo ops, a voice in foreign affairs, you name it.

It's hard to say where this feud will end, but with Harper musing about redefining confederation, the next year should make for very interesting political theater.

In Other News...

Stephen Harper has "flip-flopped" on the release of the Prime Ministerial agenda. If there is anyone out there who:

a) understands this issue
b) knows why we should care about it

I'd love to hear from you in the comments section.

77 Comments:

I love your blog. I try to keep mine kind of light but every now and then I feel I get something that needs to be seen. Check out the link and do what you feel is needed.

http://themsfightinwords.blogspot.com/2006/05/look-at-this-then-complain.html

By Nastyboy, at 1:16 a.m.
Take it from an Ontario resident - Dalton McGuinty is only worried about his own political backside.

He is the worst thing that has happened to Ontario since Bob Rae.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 7:05 a.m.
Why is this important?

It is important because releasing the PM's agenda was one of the issues that the Tories used to portray the former Prime Minister as untrustworthy.

That means that either:

a) The Tories, in opposition, were using the schedule issue to undermine the credibility of the Prime Minister, without any real interest in the content.

That's cheap, cynical politics.

b) They are afraid that they have, or will soon have, something to hide.

That's worse.
______________________

And Joanne seems to have forgotten about unlamented Ernie Eves.

By C4SR, at 7:52 a.m.
Ernie Eves was weak, but not a threat to the economy the way Dalton is.

He is self-serving; just like the daycare lobby and MSM.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 9:04 a.m.
And just to prove that I am not totally partisan, I do think the Stephane Dion is an admirable person. If I were Liberal, I would support him.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 9:05 a.m.
Like Dalton was nevered introduced in the same manner like by a Federal liberal before....

By eastern capitalist, at 9:21 a.m.
Chris, thanks for that. Where did you find the article?

If Ontario is booming it is in spite of Dalton, not because of him.

And if Ontario truly is booming, why are manufacturing plants closing? And why can't I get my provincial health insurance to pay for my eye exam?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 11:37 a.m.
Dalton McGuinty is a big, whiney baby. The federal government just lowered the GST by one point. That means Ontario could raise its PST by one point, no one would pay any more tax than they have in the past,and Ontario would have a cash windfall. All Dalton can do is cry about not having a federal sugar daddy.
Be a leader Dalton. Harmonize Ontario's sales tax with the GST, and keep whatever the feds give up. Or wait for John Tory to do it.

By nuna d. above, at 11:40 a.m.
"We are always out there speaking to exporters. Pretty well every one of them is putting in new equipment to cut costs."

In southern Ontario, exporters are closing down and moving to Mexico and Romania.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 12:06 p.m.
Like Dalton was nevered introduced in the same manner like by a Federal liberal before....

Actually, no. At no point in recent memory has a sitting prime minister spoken at the fundraising event of his or her provincial cousin here in Ontario. Trudeau didn't do it. Turner didn't. Chretien and Martin didn't. Likewise, Clark and Mulroney didn't do it either.

By James Bow, at 12:30 p.m.
And if Ontario truly is booming, why are manufacturing plants closing? And why can't I get my provincial health insurance to pay for my eye exam?

Well, would you like Harris' tax cuts to be reversed then? Because it would certainly ensure that provincial health insurance paid for eye exams. As for the closing of factories, perhaps you are unaware that the dollar is now trading above 90 cents US, almost 50 percent higher than when the Tories were in power.

By JG, at 12:47 p.m.
Ignatieff said, and I quote:

** I am tired of getting into taxicabs and speaking with people who have as many degrees as I have. It is time to get these people out of the cabs and into the labs **

Well didn*t Ignatieff just shoot himself in the foot here? Harper just arrived. Is it the Liberal party who have been in power for thirteen years? Then it must be liberal party policy that has people who should be in Labs driving cabs.

Oh, can*t resist pointing to one*s degrees, eh Ignatieff?

Bob Rae Said, and I quote.

**It is Harper and the conservatives who are our opponents, and it is Harper and the conservatives who we have to defeat.**

This brilliant flash is so pathetic, that I need say nothing. It defines the speaker*s insight value at zero.

These are the two leading contenders for the Liberal Party. I fear for the total demise of the Liberals.

That would give Jack Flash and the Natural Dipstick Party no one to split their vote with, unless the Greens made sudden strides forward.

This is not sniping . I merely point to the Liberal*s open flank in hopes of a stronger Liberal Party. We Canadian voters deserve far better quality and sharpness from those who want to pilot this ship that is Canada.

Chretien and Martin got sloppy and slipped to within inches of Niagra Falls. We can not afford to get this close to going over the edge again. TG

By TonyGuitar, at 12:52 p.m.
Josh - "Well, would you like Harris' tax cuts to be reversed then? Because it would certainly ensure that provincial health insurance paid for eye exams."

They were, and it didn't.

"As for the closing of factories, perhaps you are unaware that the dollar is now trading above 90 cents US, almost 50 percent higher than when the Tories were in power."

A higher Canadian dollar makes exporting more difficult, not less. Think about it for a while.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 1:48 p.m.
"A higher Canadian dollar makes exporting more difficult, not less. Think about it for a while."

Uhm, yeah Joanne, that's Josh's point. Since the dollar is high and its harder to export, manufacturers are closing down because of dwindling markets. Or relocating to Mexico. Nothing really to do with Dalton.

Also if Dalton is to blame for those closings in Southern Ontario, then he can certainly take credit for the enourmous amount of high-tech jobs being created in places like Toronto, Waterloo and Ottawa (our unemployment rate is about 5.8% comapred to 6.4 nationally), so I'm sure there is a net gain for the Ontario economy.

And how about Toyota and the CAMI factory in Woodstock? They are building and hiring, expanding operations.

Could it be that this is part of a changing economy and globalization, which you Cons like to support, rather than any actions by a particular provincial premier? Funny how this paricular Federal Conservative party will cut money to Ontario but keep $1.5 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas industry in Alberta intact.

Take it from another Ontario resident - Dalton isn't great but he is a damn sight better than Eaves and Harris. And the best thing Mike Harris ever did was make Bob Rae look good.

By Mike, at 2:09 p.m.
The best thing Mike Harris did was keep his promises.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 2:40 p.m.
Of thirty-some US autoparts manufacturing plants, 27 of those are closing to relocate to Mexico.

Black clouds as far as I can see.

Will marching Latinos be marching back to Mexico to get a good job? TG

By TonyGuitar, at 2:42 p.m.
And why can't I get my provincial health insurance to pay for my eye exam?

Because you wanted tax cuts. I realize in clownservative land services come without a pricetag, but in the real world you only get what you pay for.

By Robert McClelland, at 3:51 p.m.
McGuinty raised taxes when he added a $900 health tax, and then delisted some previous services. Of course, abortions are still fully funded; available on demand.

But people are not being encouraged to get an eye exam, and are out there driving and possibly not even realizing that their eyesight is deteriorating.

However, this is obviously a hostile territory when I hear brilliant phrases like "clownservative land". So I will leave you to your nit-picking.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 4:04 p.m.
Robert McClelland,

As per usual, you pot shot the cons, instead of realizing "Oh yeah, it was Dalton McGuinty who did it, not the (add your favorite retarded shot at) Harris/Eves government."

Get your shots right in public, unlike on your excuse for a blog.

By ®oby, at 4:53 p.m.
Joanne: eye exams are not covered because they are easily expected costs. They are regular and predictable. Health Care is meant to cover costs which are not predictable, and in extension, to prevent exorbinant non predictable expenses which come from not having regular care.

Having free eye exams will not encourage people with fading or failing eyesight to go for exams. These people will avoid exams even if they were free. The extra expense of eye exams will be absorbed by people who regularly go to eye exams already, or whom have no need for eye exams. BOCTAOE. In Alberta we have free exams for people under 18, and people over 65. I believe that is a fair comprimise.

As for taxes, the Health Care premiums did not nearly make up for the revenue lost to the Harris tax cuts. To compare the two is like comparing apples to oranges. The tax which was cut was progressive, and the one that was added was regressive. The Harris legacy lives on in the fiscal imbalance.

By Concerned Albertan, at 5:04 p.m.
K O - Unlike your pal Robert, you actually present a logical argument, and don't use sarcasm to make your point.

I'll have to give this some thought and get back to you.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 5:30 p.m.
"Take it from an Ontario resident - Dalton McGuinty is only worried about his own political backside.

He is the worst thing that has happened to Ontario since Bob Rae."

Yup, shrinking class sizes, labour harmony with teachers, improved testing results has been very bad for Ontario.

Waiting times are either being reduced or have stopped increasing, again, very bad for Ontario.

When the Globe and Mail says:

"But since being sworn in last February, Mr. Harper has shown a profound preference for Quebec and an antipathy toward Ontario and its Liberal Premier that some find borders on disrespect."

You know you just fucked up. The asshole in Harper just totally bit him in the ass.

By Dan McKenzie, at 7:02 p.m.
"But since being sworn in last February, Mr. Harper has shown a profound preference for Quebec and an antipathy toward Ontario and its Liberal Premier that some find borders on disrespect."

As compared to the profound respect shown to -say- the Premier of Alberta by the last two PMs, I suppose?

By deaner, at 7:49 p.m.
Quick, how many people here actually know what UNESCO does in exercising its profound impact on Canadian foreign policy and international relations at large? For that matter, what does it stand for? If Quebec has a "voice in foreign affairs," the volume is somewhere between "mute" and "1" on the dial.

By RGM, at 8:03 p.m.
And why on earth is Harper doing this? Ontario delivered 40 seats. Can the dude not add?

Actually, I am going to enjoy watching Harper self-destruct. I can see the elements coming together now. It's going to be a thing of beauty, I think.

By doggerelblogger, at 9:50 p.m.
And why on earth is Harper doing this? Ontario delivered 40 seats. Can the dude not add?

stupid is as stupid does.

By Omar, at 10:25 p.m.
K O - "Health Care is meant to cover costs which are not predictable, and in extension, to prevent exorbinant non predictable expenses which come from not having regular care."

And that's why abortions are funded?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 10:36 p.m.
And that's why abortions are funded?

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?lapoint1

Check this online petition: "De-funding Abortion Services In Canada", it's been around since April/02 and has a grand total of 2311 signatures. Wow.

I think it is pretty obvious why abortion is funded in Canada and woe to any government who attempts to meddle with that funding.

By Omar, at 12:04 a.m.
While the topic of *new leader*

is national in nature, to a BC based person, it would seem that the comment focus is narrowly based in Otario. In the GTA in fact. Ontario provincial health nuances to be specific?

Is this a microcosm of the naval focus that seems to irk those in the west? TG

By TonyGuitar, at 12:17 a.m.
Omar - Thanks for that link. I'll be sure to sign.

"I think it is pretty obvious why abortion is funded in Canada" - I'll bite. Why?

Chris - Well, I'll have to go back and study my Ontario history a little more and get back to you. To be honest, I wasn't too interested in provincial politics til recently.

What I see happening in our area is plants closing, people without doctors, and hospitals in crisis. Not, that isn't all McGuinty's fault, but this sure isn't the land of milk and honey here. Far from it. I know of so many plants closing this summer here, and people are frantic wondering what they're going to do. These are people with kids and mortgages, and they can't find anything better than McJobs. The unions have made it impossible to be competitive in a global economy when the same goods can be produced so much cheaper in Mexico or Romania.

So, maybe I'm working from a gut feeling here, but I don't see Dalton McGuinty as someone who is trying to address the problem. I don't see him doing much about the native disputes either, except wishing they would solve themselves.

Sorry about the rant.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 8:59 a.m.
I used to hate Dalton (especially after the health tax). I liked John Tory as a person. However, recently I have started to warm to Dalton. He broke one promise initially, but then have kept others (1000 more officers, protecting greenbelts, peace with teachers union, and so on).

Warren Kinsella says it best as to why Dalton will win here.

Besides, is this the most partisian PM or what. He is making deals with the devil (to paraphrase him) in letting Quebec get a seat in what is a CANADIAN seat (UNICEF). He is misusing the governments posn for partisian needs. If he refuses to meet Ontario's needs (the powerhouse of Canadian economy and centre of the Canadian world, no matter what others think) he is in trouble.

By mezba, at 9:14 a.m.
Mezba, I as an Ontario resident do not feel angry in the least at this apparent "snub" by the PM. Dalton, for his part, has not done much to attempt to forge a healthy relationship between himself and Harper.

Interesting read by Kinsella. I actually really respect Warren. He and I have even exchanged a few emails. Not sure if I agree with him here, but personality wise, when I look at Dalton, I see a whiney little boy with his nose out of joint because he didn't get what he wanted for Christmas. Just my opinion.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 9:31 a.m.
What the puck, too bad you can*t ease off on the flowery language, because I mostly agree with you.

The flowery part detracts from the weight of what you say.

We conservatives are usually more diplomatic than that.

With what *Molester Billy* and the MSM still get away with, it*s no wonder that we resort to a little swearing.

You know the CBC news had the gall to feature some stupid word pablum that Brison was spouting in Quebec.

How the hell does that get to be a news item??

Time to get the liberal suckh.. suckups out of CBC head office. Ooops, I almost did what Pucky did. TG

By TonyGuitar, at 1:04 p.m.
Omar - Thanks for that link. I'll be sure to sign.
"I think it is pretty obvious why abortion is funded in Canada" - I'll bite. Why?

Uhm, because there are only a paltry 2311 signatures on a petition that has been circulating for 4years? How's that for starters? It's now a whopping 2312 that you've added your voice True Blew. A majority of Canadians agree with a woman's right to choose and to have that right funded. Period.

By Omar, at 2:27 p.m.
A majority of Canadians agree with a woman's right to choose? I do too - for child care, that is.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 2:49 p.m.
You would like to dictate the issue though, if you had *emperor Martin* at your disposal. I can tell. TG

By TonyGuitar, at 3:11 p.m.
Conservatives should enjoy their stay on the governing side of the House. Even if you do get that majority mandate, it will be less than a half decade. What's the overall historical governing scorecard of this country? Something like Liberals:105 years to Conservatives:40 years? Would ya'll care to spin that particular fact to your favour? It is like some outlandish CFL score.

By Omar, at 3:39 p.m.
Omar - typical Liberal arrogance.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 5:31 p.m.
Joanne, McGuinty has his ups and his downs.

For example:
Up: the defecit is almost gone
Down: the health premium.

Your opinion is the opinion of many other Ontarians. People are split on McGuinty.

I do think that Harper's action was wrong. To snub an elected leader of a province is wrong. Did Martin or Chretien refuse to meet with Ralph Klein or Mike Harris and then go and introduce Taft or McGuinty as the next Premier of the province?

I can see how partisanship is usefull - such as in the House - but some duties of the Prime Minister are not partisan, meeting the Premiers is one of them.

This whole thing hurts Harper more than helps him.

By Zac, at 6:04 p.m.
Omar - typical Liberal arrogance.

Joanne, what exactly is so typically arrogant about pointing out that for the vast majority of this countries governing history your party has not been the choice for voters? The Conservative movement has been grossly inferior in winning elections. Is it arrogant to site fact? Puh-leez.

By Omar, at 8:30 p.m.
Well, Omar, the fact is that this country has never had this particular party in government, so we'll see what happens. You may be surprised.

Zac, thanks for your comments. I see your point, but I don't see anything wrong with Harper supporting Tory. Suppose that the PQ was in power in Quebec. Would it be o.k. for the P.M. to openly support a different party then, if he thought it might be more in the country's best interests? Just a thought.

Well, I'm going to leave you Grits to your own devices now. Maybe you'll lure some other unsuspecting Tory into your lair sometime, and then you can have some more fun attacking them. With the exception of Zac and K.O., all is see here is blind partisanship. I'm wasting my time.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 8:47 p.m.
Well, Omar, the fact is that this country has never had this particular party in government, so we'll see what happens.

Well, that's for sure. An even further to the right Conservative party. Prediction? One term. Maybe.

With the exception of Zac and K.O., all is see here is blind partisanship. I'm wasting my time.

From Joanne's blog May 2/06:

Yesterday I stumbled across a blatant example of left-wing propaganda in Kitchener's The Record, "Tories march to wrong drum by following U.S. lead"

Yeah, no blind partisanship here. Buh-bye True Blew.

By Omar, at 9:00 p.m.
When did Harper promise to sell Highway 407 for a song? When did he promise to fire thousands of nurses, only to have to rehire them when it became obvious that nurses are rather integral to health care? When did Harris promise to "create a crisis" in education? When did he promise to deregulate tuition fees or cut all provincial funding for public transit?

Should I go on? This notion that Harris "kept his promise" only flies if you ignore all the things he did but never mentioned.

By JG, at 10:03 p.m.
LiberalFortunes,

You are not the only one. Do you think the Greens will surge and become the splinter vote foil for the National Dipstick Party?

Hope I didn*t offend there. TG

By TonyGuitar, at 1:03 a.m.
Ah, I just can't stay away...

Omar - We will have to agree to disagree. Frank Etherington is a left-wing propagandist's dream. I was holding myself back when I said that.

And BTW, thanks for dropping by. ;)

Leopetr - "Abortions are not a predictable expense."

I think I can predict how to avoid needing one.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 6:40 a.m.
It's common sense that most unplanned, accidental pregnancies should be terminated and delayed until later."

How do you reckon it is "common sense" that people shouldn't have to be held accountable and responsible for their actions? Moreover, it's highly contradictory to say that pregnancies should be both "terminated" and "delayed." The latter simply is not a option and can't be done once the former occurs. You can't tell the fetus to hold off for a few extra months, and you certainly can't do that after you've killed it.

By RGM, at 8:43 a.m.
You can't tell the fetus to hold off for a few extra months, and you certainly can't do that after you've killed it.

Abortion is not murder. That induced abortion is indeed legal, makes that clear. Abortion is not pleasant, but it is life.

A total of 103,768 abortions were performed in 2003, down 1% from 105,154 in 2002. The abortion rate edged down from 15.4 abortions per 1,000 women in 2002 to 15.2 in 2003.

It goes without saying that conservative minded folks who believe that one abortion is too many will find these numbers horrendous. Personally, I look upon these stats as being rather insignificant when placed along side our Canadian population of 33million.

By Omar, at 9:16 a.m.
Omar, I wonder if you would still say that if you were one of those "insignificant" statistics?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 9:26 a.m.
Omar, I wonder if you would still say that if you were one of those "insignificant" statistics

It's rather a moot point isn't it?
If I were, I wouldn't be here.

By Omar, at 9:50 a.m.
Exactly my point.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 9:58 a.m.
Not being here doesn't exactly bother me Joanne. So for me personally, the point remains moot.

By Omar, at 10:00 a.m.
Wow! Omar, I feel sorry for you.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 10:34 a.m.
Gee, thanks....

By Omar, at 10:43 a.m.
Yeah, I really do, Omar. That's incredibly disturbing to me to hear someone say they don't care if they're alive or not. There must be a reason for you to feel like that. Don't give up, whatever it is. You wouldn't believe what kind of joy there is to experience in life. I wake up every morning excited with all the possiblities.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 11:16 a.m.
That's incredibly disturbing to me to hear someone say they don't care if they're alive or not. There must be a reason for you to feel like that.

Joanne, you are reading way too much into my comment. If I'd been aborted in 1963(likely a much more grim procedure than the one Freddie Fetus has the good fortune of experiencing today) I simply would not be here. Period. I am an atheist. Plain and simple. An External Deity and it's grand scheming play no part whatsoever in my daily existence. I feel sorry for people where it does.

By Omar, at 11:40 a.m.
"Abortion is not pleasant, but it is life."

Were you trying to be ironic there? Because if so, good job. Abortion is not "life," it is a pre-emptive strike on it.

By RGM, at 12:30 p.m.
I was not aborted, yet I feel very much *not all here*.

Aaah, no coffee yet. TG

By TonyGuitar, at 12:39 p.m.
Omar - "I am an atheist... An External Deity and it's grand scheming play no part whatsoever in my daily existence."

So, what is the purpose of your existence, as you see it?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 12:46 p.m.
Abortion is not "life," it is a pre-emptive strike on it.

It's a part of life. If you wish to call it preemptive, then fine, I don't have any difficulties with that.

So, what is the purpose of your existence, as you see it

You know, pay the bills, be a good person, be aware, destroy organized religion, normal stuff.

By Omar, at 12:59 p.m.
Omar - Funny.

Why bother being a good person though?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 3:05 p.m.
Omar-Why bother being a good person though?

Wha?

By Omar, at 3:12 p.m.
Joanne, Plato talked about the erotic quality of justice and being just. One does not need to externally justify ones actions, as we have internal drives.

The quagmire of the debate you are having is systematic of why the religous right has never gained traction in this country.

In the world you suppose there are no natural rights, just rights given to you by a sovereign, and therefor your sovereign has the ability to take that right away. The right in this case is the ability to control ones own body.

The other side is that in the state of nature we are all protected by our own natural rights, and when society is formed it is a social contract which one trades rights, to protect them at lower costs to the individual. However, this contract is null and void if one violates your natural rights, as if it obviously not working to protect your rights.

Joanne, do you believe in the right of revolution from an unjust soveriegn authority? Or do you believe the sovereign is absolute, and there should be no right to revolution from unjust authority?

By Concerned Albertan, at 3:24 p.m.
K.O. I don't buy into your premise:

"In the world you suppose there are no natural rights, just rights given to you by a sovereign, and therefor your sovereign has the ability to take that right away. The right in this case is the ability to control ones own body."

If that is true, then why is it illegal to commit suicide? i.e. attempted suicide will be stopped by the state.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 3:37 p.m.
Joanne: To quote yourself quoting myself

"K.O. I don't buy into your premise:

"In the world you suppose there are no natural rights, just rights given to you by a sovereign, and therefor your sovereign has the ability to take that right away. The right in this case is the ability to control ones own body."

If that is true, then why is it illegal to commit suicide? i.e. attempted suicide will be stopped by the state."

Your refutation is in fact a confirmation. The sovereign in your view has the right to stop people from committing suicide. This is removing a right from people.

By Concerned Albertan, at 3:44 p.m.
K O: That is not my world view, that is reality as it is right now. How does it differ from a woman's so-called right to control her own body? I'm not saying I believe one thing or another. I'm saying how is it that both things exist in a society and they are incongruent?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 3:46 p.m.
Joanne, the only mention in the criminal code about suicide is as follows:

Suicide

Counselling or aiding suicide

241. Every one who

(a) counsels a person to commit suicide, or

(b) aids or abets a person to commit suicide,

whether suicide ensues or not, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 241; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 7.
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/267361.html
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/

Attempted suicide is not illegal in Canada.

By Concerned Albertan, at 4:50 p.m.
K O - Well, thank you. I stand corrected on that.

So a person has the right to do anything they want to their body, and the state has to deal with whatever harm they cause themselves, and everyone else in the state has to pay for it, right?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 8:55 p.m.
Chris,

Did you ever think that the reason why the economy is doing so well is because Dalton McGuinty left Mike Harris' policies in place??

Please. It's the same thing Chretien did, come in and ride the gravy train.

By Anonymous, at 9:05 p.m.
k o - What about the unborn baby's right to his own body?

By Joanne (True Blue), at 10:19 p.m.
Joanne, fetuses which cannot survive on their own (as in breathe, and such) in the state of nature cannot survive, and are therefor not given any natural rights.

When babies are born they have rights. they consequently enter the social contract through tacit consent

By Concerned Albertan, at 11:31 p.m.
ko - "fetuses which cannot survive on their own (as in breathe, and such) in the state of nature cannot survive, and are therefor not given any natural rights."

Babies aborted moments before birth can certainly breath on their own.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 6:20 a.m.
(If given the chance)

By Joanne (True Blue), at 6:24 a.m.
I would believe almost no babies are aborted at that late a stage, except when the mothers health is in danger. Just because there is no law against it doesn't mean it will happen.

By Concerned Albertan, at 1:00 p.m.
Then why don't we just have a law for that, as long as the mother's health is not in jeopardy?

BTW, I could get some horror stories for you about abortions that went wrong, and the baby was left to die on the delivery table without any medical intervention.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 2:49 p.m.
KO - BTW, I have carried this discussion over to my blog. Feel free to shoot a few darts there.

By Joanne (True Blue), at 2:53 p.m.
Blue: there's a difference between supporting a candidate during an election, and when you're a year away from one.

Reading abortion debates on Canadian blogs is a rather odd experience, by the way. It seems so much more...settled... in Canada than in the United States.

Chef: Harris is criticized for suffering from what Colbert described as "having the same opinion on Wednesday that he did on Monday, no matter what happened on Tuesday". Consistency in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence is not a virtue, as Americans have learned to their sorrow.

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Friday, May 05, 2006

The New Leader of the Opposition

77 Comments:

About

Previous

About Me

Friday, May 05, 2006

The New Leader of the Opposition

77 Comments:

About

Previous

About Me