Saturday, December 30, 2006

Holiday News Roundup

1. Finally! The recognition Ralph deserves:

Former premier Ralph Klein is to be presented with the Cam Fella Award next month in Mississauga by Standardbred Canada. The organization says no other provincial government has been as supportive to Canadian horse racing as the Klein-led Progressive Conservative government in Alberta.

The provincial government is pumping about $63 million into horse racing this year alone.

2. I'll be updating my links and sidebar at some point in the next week and when I do, I'll be sure to include this new blog. More than anyone else around, Darryl defines what it means to be a Calgary grit, and it's great to see people blogging who have been around this party for as long as him.

3. While Darryl has been a Liberal for decades, this new blogger has been a Liberal for weeks - nevertheless, he'll also be up on the link list when I update.

4. I'm never one to jump to conspiracy theories, but something is rotten in the state of Denmark with this one:

OTTAWA — Canada's chief electoral officer, who was involved in a months-long spat with the Conservative party over whether it broke federal election laws, is resigning.

There was no immediate reason given for Jean-Pierre Kingsley's decision to step down as head of Elections Canada at the end of next month.

The Conservatives said Mr. Kingsley's departure and the dispute were completely unrelated.

5. So long Mr. President.

6. So long James Brown.

7. And, Saddam Hussein is dead.


  • Of course Kingsley's stepping down has to be something dark and sinister. It couldn't have anything to do with the use of phony addresses in Anne McLellans riding, the vote fraud on the reserve in Gary Merasty's riding, non-citizens voting in Toronto. Maybe it's time for someone competent to enforce the rules.

    By Blogger nuna d. above, at 1:33 PM  

  • time for someone NOT beholden to a corrupt party one year out of office.

    By Blogger renegadejet, at 3:19 PM  

  • I think that the forced resignation of the Chief Electoral Officer forbodes sinister times ahead for Canada because of the Harpercon's and their corrupt breathern south of the border.

    These are criminals for the most part that have no decency and no standards, except to control everything they touch.

    Harper KNOWS he cannot win a Canadian Election fair and square, and his teacher, Ted Morton also KNOWS that he could not win the Premiership FAIR and SQUARE, so the ONLY WAY open to the Harpercons is the fix the next election.

    In order to do that, they have to first remove Ben Kingsley, which they have now done.

    We are witnessing a coup d' etat in the making folks, and you heard it here first.

    Its a big mistake to regard "neocons" as "conservatives". They are nothing of the sort. These politicos are fascists, and they went to the same school as the Nazis and El Duce's Italian Mob.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 5:15 PM  

  • And Joe Green goes off the rails by bringing up Nazis.

    Better luck next time Joe.

    By Blogger renegadejet, at 5:33 PM  

  • No one believed that Hitler was dangerous and no one took steps to stop him when there was still time.

    What is taking place in Washington these days is dangerous to us as Canadians.

    What Harper is doing in Ottawa is dangerous to us.

    And rigging elections is a necessary first step to gain power for regimes that lack popular support.

    We face corrupt and undisciplined forces. Not just the Taliban, and not just the American Republicans that are financing coups around the globe. We face that exact same problem right here at home, and the resignation of the Chief Electoral Officer, is DIRECT evidence of that.

    renegadejet needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 5:57 PM  

  • Now granted...this is a bit off topic...but if memory serves, Stephen Harper already won an election...and a Canadian election at that.

    By Blogger Small Town Shyster, at 6:29 PM  

  • Thanks Dan, though its more accurate to say I'm a new Liberal then to say I'm a new blogger, as I have been "blogging" at Prog Blog with my diaries there as well as at BlogsCanada prior to that.

    By Blogger Scott Tribe, at 6:31 PM  

  • Since Kingsley couldn't be fired by PMSH, how is his resigning evidence of something dark & sinister? And as nuna d. above points out, the last election had more than a few hitches, maybe a report is about to be tabled and he doesn't want to face the music. Maybe he doesn't want to run another election.

    Maybe - just maybe - he just QUIT.

    Wow. Maybe you should have Gore interview him, there might be a movie in it.

    By Blogger Candace, at 7:03 PM  

  • Joe Green,might i suggest you get to a doctor right away as i think your head is about to explode.

    Perhaps before blathering on like a lunatic you sit back and examine the facts,such as what the only way for Kingsley to get booted from office is.

    You display serious paranoia that needs immediate medical attention.Anyone roling out the Nazi comparison proves themselves to be a true loser.

    Good luck with your issues.

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 8:02 PM  

  • Perhaps the nice Mr.Dan could point out what post JP Kingsely's daughter holds with the LPC.

    Maybe someone would point out that adscam materially affected at least two general elections, as proven by Gomery...NO investigation or sanctions against the LPC from Mr. Kingsley. He was too busy persecuting the NCC and its leader at the time...Anybody remember who that guy was??

    Can anyone point out a negative ruling or censure of the LPC by Mr. Kingsley during the term of his employment?

    And for famed Nazi hunter Joe Green: it would take a majority vote by parliament that would then have to be recognized by the GG in order to fire Him.

    By Blogger renegadejet, at 8:53 PM  

  • Kingsley could resign under pressure from the PMO. Apparently he's not able to comment on this, which makes it even more suspicious to me.

    I'm really here to comment on Klein and gambling. My grandfather used to take me to the horse races when I was a small boy and I have fond memories of the races. I love horses. what I'm not a fan of is subsidizing gambling, and there's a lot of that going on here in Alberta. The province makes more money off of gambling royalties than it does from oil&gas royalties. Charitable organizations and cultural programs are dependent on gambling revenues. Most of the money comes from problem gamblers. It's an addiction and it destroys lives. (sorry for the rant).

    I'm sooo glad to see King Ralph gone, and I hope Stelmach makes some changes. The change we really need is for a different party running things in this province.

    By Blogger Cameron W, at 10:47 AM  

  • I just want to say a big 10-4 to Cameron on Klein.

    This was the ruinous Mike Harris of Alberta.

    And I agree 200% with Cameron on the Gambling and Klein's love affair with the tbugs in Las Vagas that brought this social disease to Alberta.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:16 AM  

  • That slag about the Cam Fella award is just plain mean-spirited. Alberta has a long tradition of horse racing. We still have many rural residents who benefit from the industry.

    If the Liberals truly want to make gains in Alberta perhaps their most prominent blogger in the province shouldn't play to the urban-centric, snotty stereotype of his colleagues from the East...

    By Blogger Ricki Bobbi, at 12:44 PM  

  • renegadejet, Brian Mulroney's corrupt party has been IN office for a year. And that's who appointed Kingsley.

    By Blogger Reality Bites, at 1:04 PM  

  • Even Lyin Brian never tried to fix an election the way the Harpercons are trying to do, emulating Jeb Bush in Florida.

    When Mulroney went down, he went down for the count. The voters of Canada left the "neocons" with just two seats, a lone male and a lone female so the Tory species would not go extinct.

    They choice for PM, Kim Campbell and her Russian boyfriend, with their "neocon agendas", all went down the toilet, and that is precisely where the Harper agenda to rape Canadians should also be consigned.

    These rodents have no place in Canada's public life.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:36 PM  

  • Kingsley was appointed by Mulroney but after the PCs were wiped out he quickly read the tea leaves and hitched his wagon to the Liberals, who by the way are well known for looking after their friends.

    Dont answer any of the questions I posed, just accuse a party that has been in power for one year of corruption with no basis in fact and of course no proof.

    By Blogger renegadejet, at 2:37 PM  

  • renegadejet opined...

    "Dont answer any of the questions I posed, just accuse a party that has been in power for one year of corruption with no basis in fact and of course no proof."

    Its a mistake to call the Harpercons a "Canadian Party". They are not. They are the Canadian Wing of the American Republican Party.

    They are "neocons" and they are therefore dangerous to Canada's freedoms.

    Like the Nazis, no one should have anything to do with them. They need to be consigned to the dustbin of history.

    The fascism that Harper brings is there for all to see, its just below the surface. Just look at those around him, like his mouthpiece Jason Kenney or his "senator in waiting" Ted Morton. These men are not Canadians. They are Americans.

    For the life of me, I cannot see why they live here, except as the shock troops invading Canada to take over our resources and our country for their multinational companies, in a fashion no different than what Dick Cheney is doing for Halliburton in Iraq.

    Perverting our elections is the first step toward a Harpercon government that plans to rape Canada of her resources, and force our people into fighting unjust and illegal wars abroad.

    Canadian troops fighting in Afghanistan now suffer six times the casualty rates taken by even Americans in Iraq, and we are doing that not for our foreign policy purposes with at one time was to support the UN and NATO and to try to bring security and peace to Afghanistan. Rather, the Harpercons want Canada to join Emperor George II murderous spree across the Middle East.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 3:26 PM  

  • Joe Green is either trying to pas Joe Volpe as the stupidest Liberal around, or else is a rather lame Tory troll.

    I'll go with the troll angle, becasue nobody this dumb should be allowed out of there special home.

    By Blogger Manitoba Liberal, at 3:40 PM  

  • ML, sorry, we don't want him. There is a theory that he is a liberal trying to make conservatives look bad.

    By Blogger Candace, at 4:56 PM  

  • As i said already,Joe Green needs some quick medical help.

    Some facts Joe.The Conservatives won the last election,meaning they won the most seats and had the highest percentage of the vote.

    As for your anti-America tirade,i am sure you buy no products produced in the States or are employed (if thats even possible), by a company who deals with U.S. customers.

    And once again you proved how you are a big loser by inciting the Nazi comparison.How pathetic.

    Now run to the hospital and ask for chemical castration.Someone as messed up as you should never be allowed to breed.

    And no,you never did address any of the questions put forth to you here.

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 4:56 PM  

  • paulsstuff opined ...

    "Now run to the hospital and ask for chemical castration.Someone as messed up as you should never be allowed to breed.

    And no,you never did address any of the questions put forth to you here."

    Here you see a tirade from a tongue tied Social Creditor from Alberta that brought eugenics into law in the Province. Its no wonder that he believes and advocates chemical castration in all its inhuman forms.

    The Social Creditors of Alberta were much less "social conservatives" then they were "fascists". Anyone who lived here during the Manning years can tell you that. This "christo conservative" even went so far as to castrate (or if you prefer, "sterilize" their own brother). They are in the same league as Saddam and his breathern in Tikrit.

    As for any questions directed to me, I have answered these. If you believe that I have not, then restate your query, I would be happy to respond.

    Finally for ML, I think that he needs much naval gazing before coming out here to aimlessly level criticism in my direction.

    Stay focused man, there is only one opponent that Liberals face of any consequence, and that is the Harpercons.

    I want to rid Canada in an almost desperate way, of all their damaging policies, ideas and values.

    I do not regard them as "conservatives" with historical roots in Canada. I regard them as fifth columnists that need to be sent back to where they came from.

    What part of "no" do you not understand????

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:11 PM  

  • for the record,

    joe green is very much a Liberal. Dionista and Orchardite.

    welcome to your new unified party, guys and dolls.

    By Blogger Chuckercanuck, at 11:18 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote this garbage..

    "As for your anti-America tirade,i am sure you buy no products produced in the States or are employed (if thats even possible), by a company who deals with U.S. customers."

    Bullshit! I have never even uttered a word against American citizens with real blood, muscle and sinew. I have attacked a few corrupt American based multinational companies, and the criminals that run them, including members of the current administration in Washington that needs to be brought to justice and face charges for their crimes against humanity.

    Furthermore, I have attacked ONLY THOSE that come to Canada and pretend to be Canadians, such as Stevie Harper, Ted Morton, Jason Kenney, Hal Banks, and a number of other members of "the Company".

    I want Canada to ask them to leave Canada in PRECISELY the same fashion that we asked General De Gaulle to leave when he began meddling in Canadian political affairs.

    The facts are that Liberals NEVER supported the kind of NAFTA "free trade" deals that have been foisted upon us. John Turner wanted to foster "fairer trade", and I am in agreement with that. Even "true blue" Tories like David Orchard disagrees with NAFTA in its current form. Most thinking Canadians that have viewed these documents have also arrived at this same conclusion. Mr. Reisman did Canada no favours when he negotiated this misbegotten "neocon" trade deal.

    The facts are that Harper NEVER won a mandate from Canadians to emesh us in foreign undefined wars without our NATO allies, in order to save Emperor George Bush II sorry ass around the globe.

    I am NOT prepared to have Canadian soldiers die for anything less than a "just cause". And fighting Halliburton's war in Iraq is NOT a just cause.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:23 PM  

  • Chuckercanuck said...

    "for the record,

    joe green is very much a Liberal. Dionista and Orchardite."

    For the record, I am a Canadian, and I not only predicted but supported Stephane Dion's efforts to win the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada. The Liberals will do well, and we as Canadians will do well under his leadership, which I support.

    I also support a strong and loyal opposition in the House of Commons, and to my mind there is no better leader for the Tories to regroup around than David Orchard. He is the John Diefenbaker of the Progressive Conservative Party that has a long and historic role in Canadian Politics.

    And I want to not only weaken, but to destroy the BLOC, its separatists and traitors, and I wish no less a fate for the "neocons" from Calgary.

    We in Alberta have made a good start in this direction in 2006 by not only booting out Ralph Klein, but by installing Smilin Ed Stelmach as Premier. I may not agree with many of Stelmach's positions, but at lest with Smilin Ed I KNOW that he is as loyal to Canada and Alberta as was Roy Romanow from Saskatchewan, who was another "son of the soil".

    As for Chucker, and Springer, I want them removed from Canada, at the point of a spear if necessary. There is NO PLACE in Canada for separatists, neocons, or other assorted traitors. And certainly no place for fascist aggitators.

    One last point. I want to see a better composition in the House of Commons so that smaller parties like the NDP and the Greens get the seats in the House that actually reflect their democratic support in our country.

    Canadian political debates belong in the House of Commons, not on the streets of Gaza City, or the Main Cafes of Tel Aviv.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:34 PM  

  • paulsstuff said...

    "As i said already,Joe Green needs some quick medical help."

    Paul obviously comes from the Soviet Union because he is advocating the exact same policy that the communists supported against their political critics.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:39 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote ...

    "Someone as messed up as you should never be allowed to breed."

    You all remember how aggitated Americans became over the "missile gap". Here is an example of the "gonad gap"

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:42 PM  

  • Prediction for 2007: Calgarygrit goes to Haloscan so he can ban.

    Just guessin'

    By Blogger Candace, at 12:53 AM  

  • Be fair to Joe Green, people with this sort of mental illness and serious paranoia really don't know what they are saying because of problems in their brain that are out of their control. Just ignore him and hopefully he will get the help he truely needs.

    Joe, call your nearest hospital for an emergency psych consult. If you're living at home like I would suspect have your mom help you.

    By Blogger What_The_Puck?, at 9:11 AM  

  • I'm personally, based on the info I have, satisfied with Kingsley's departure. I'm not convinced he was doing an ethical job of running the show. I stress that I do believe the outcomes of elections under his oversight achieved the electorate's desired outcome, and am not accusing him of fixing elections. However, I think it's best he give up his post, and I am happy he did so.

    Dart, I just put up a So Long message on my blog - I don't have the time currently to keep it up. I'll still be around to read and comment, however. Looking forward to a great new year of CalgaryGrit-itis.


    By Blogger Jason Bo Green, at 10:23 AM  

  • Well,i think Joe Greens most recent rants have proved our points about his illness/hate.Look at the times on his most recent posts.Parents must have locked him in the cellar while they went out to celebrate new years.

    First off Joe,born and raised in Ontario.Swing voter who goes back and forth between Liberal and Conservative. was Paul Martin who sent our troops to Kandahar,at which time he remarked there will certainly be casualties because of the dangerous mission.Google it.Its easy to find.

    Third.The Liberals campaigned against Nafta,then while in power 13 years,supported it.As for bringing up John Turner as PM,i don't even think i need to go there.

    I think you are mistaken on Klein.He quit.And after winning how many elections.How has your provincial debt been under Klein,as well as your booming economy?

    Your remarks about Harper not winning an election fairly?Well,he did win the last one,right?Well,the Liberals used adscam money over the course of four elections,one of those elections where it helped them win seats in Quebec and maintain a majority.

    As for your remarks about Kingsley,please tell us how Harper removed him.Better yet,tell us the process needed to remove Kingsley from office.

    You refer to Morton as senator in waiting.Guess your not aware Harper wants senators elected,not cherry picked.And terms restricted to 8 years.

    As for Haper "coming to Canada",sorry,he was born and raised here in the GTA.

    As for all the vile,name calling racism and false statements,i think we should all just ignore Joe Green.CG using haloscan to ban comments like his might become an neccesary evil.This blog has always been one where everyone can come and argue their side of an issue.Just a shame when this type of thing ruins it.

    So to Joe Green,good luck with your issues.To everyone else,Happy new year and look forward to blogging with you.

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 12:41 PM  

  • paulsstuff stated...

    "First off Joe,born and raised in Ontario."

    False. I was born and raised in Alberta.

    Score JG 1, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:38 PM  

  • paulstuff said...

    "Swing voter who goes back and forth between Liberal and Conservative."

    Agree, Canadian voters altered between Liberal and Progressive Conservative Governments.

    JG 2, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:39 PM  

  • paulsstuff said...

    " was Paul Martin who sent our troops to Kandahar,"

    False. Canadian troops went to Afghanistan pursuant to our NATO obligations following the attack upon the United States under article 5 of the NATO defence treaty and treating an attack by Al Quada based in Afghanistan as an attack upon all NATO member states, including Canada.

    It was Prime Minister Jean Chretien who authorized the Canadian response to activating the NATO Defence Treaty to which Canada is a signatory.

    JG 3, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:42 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote

    "Third.The Liberals campaigned against Nafta,then while in power 13 years,supported it."

    Never supported it but were stuck with the mountains of public debt left by the Mulroney "neocons". Canada's public debt stood at over $650 Billion dollars when Canadians ran Lyin Brian Mulroney's sorry ass off Parliament Hill and asked Jean Chretien to become Prime Minister in 1993.

    The Liberals did not depend upon NAFTA to repair the damage created by Mulroney's Neocons, rather they chose to grow the economy and thereby reduce the impact of this mountain of public debt. Under the Liberals, the Canadian economy more then tripled in size, while the public debt was significantly reduced as a proportion of the GNP.

    Liberals said then and continue to say that NAFTA is flawed and that they want to reopen key elements such as environmental standards, and labour practices.

    NAFTA is a bad deal of Canada, for Mexico and for much of the United States.

    JG 4, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:48 PM  

  • paulsstuff said...

    "You refer to Morton as senator in waiting. Guess your not aware Harper wants senators elected,not cherry picked.And terms restricted to 8 years."

    Ted Morton is an American. He came to Canada to teach at the University of Calgary. Harper was one of his students.

    Morton ran in an illegal "election" that was not contested by all parties, but which was introduced to the Alberta Legislature by Ralph Klein. The law is ultra vires.

    Under that illegal and rigged election, Ted Morton ran and "won" an elected seat in the Canadian Senate.

    But he never took this seat because the election was illegal.

    JG 5, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:52 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote...

    "Your remarks about Harper not winning an election fairly? Well,he did win the last one,right?"

    Winning elections to most people means winning the power to run a stable and secure government. That means either winning a majority government or forming a lasting coalition government. Harper accomplished neither, gathering the smallest MINORITY GOVERNMENT IN CANADIAN HISTORY, EVEN SMALLER THAN THE ONE GARNERED BY JOE CLARK.

    JG 6, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:55 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote...

    "I think you are mistaken on Klein. He quit."

    He was forced from office by Lyle Oberg, one of his ministers. That set off a Convention where Klein failed to win the kind of party endorsement he needed to continue as premier.

    JG 7, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 2:58 PM  

  • paulstuff wrote...

    "As for your remarks about Kingsley, please tell us how Harper removed him. Better yet,tell us the process needed to remove Kingsley from office."

    Kingsley was an officer of Parliament, rather like the Speaker of the House. These are usually regarded as "non partisan" positions. A biased speaker has an untenable position and can be forced to resign under the pressure of a single party. The same applies to the Office of the Chief Electoral Officer.

    Canadian Elections are supposed to be free of fraud, graft and corruption and usually are. But obviously the Harpercons were running fast and loose with the rules, which obliged Kingsley to respond, as he did. The Conservatives, rather then admit their own Adscam corruptions, instead turned upon the messanger.

    JG 8, Paul 0

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 3:04 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote this..

    "CG using haloscan to ban comments like his might become an neccesary evil."

    Still another "neocon" calling for censorship in the time honoured tradition of fascism.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 3:05 PM  

  • 1. "Here you see a tirade from a tongue tied Social Creditor from Alberta that brought eugenics into law in the Province. Its no wonder that he believes and advocates chemical castration in all its inhuman forms"

    You said in an earlier post i was an Albertan.I am the one born in Ontario,get it?

    2. I'm the swing voter i alluded to.And i voted Conservative last election and probably will in the next.

    3. You almost had it right.Chretien did send our troops to Afghanistan under Nato.When Martin was PM he agreed to deploy our troops to Kandahar,where he made the statement about inevitable casualties.

    4. You need to do some research as to how many jobs have been created under Nafta.The economy did indeed triple,with a big part being the results of Nafta.And one of the biggest growth provinces during this time period,under none other than Mike Harris.And i know your going to say it was Liberal policies that spurred this growth.Well,hate to burst your bubble but when Chretien was asked why the Ontario economy was prospering under Harris he attributed it to the U.S. economy,even though companies opening business here gave credit to tax breaks brought into effect by Harris.

    5. Again,you referred to Morton as a senator in waiting.Harper has proposed elected senators and terms no longer than 8 years.If Morton ever became a senator it would be by being voted in by Albertans,not picked by Harper.Want a good example of why this is a good idea.Art Eggleton,an appointed senator.Know why Art was booted from cabinet?But apparently he's fit to be a senator.

    6. Uh,Joe,who won the previous election with a minority?And how much did it accomplish compared to what Harper has in 10 months and what he has ready when parliament resumes.And if i'm not mistaken,he's already lasted longer than Clark's reign of power and may last quite longer than Martin,unless you know the date of the next election and just wont telling us.

    7. Klein stated for some time he was not going to run again for re-election.This was when the pressure was applied to have him step aside.And once again Joe,how was your economy and provincial debt under Klein?Please answer that.

    8. "Canadian Elections are supposed to be free of fraud, graft and corruption and usually are.

    "Again do some research.Start with McLelland's riding with mystery voters registered to a warehouse address.Then the riding where the Conservative was leading and near the end someone was offering $20 and a ride to get them to vote Liberal.Check the results of the 1997 election and the seat count in Quebec.Now imagine how some of those close ridings might have swung without adscam money.And you never addressed the fact Martin gave one of Kingsley's family members a job in his office,Know what conflict of interest is?

    And you have still not given the proper answer on how Kingsley can be removed from office.

    "Still another "neocon" calling for censorship in the time honoured tradition of fascism."

    Maybe you should point that out to Cherniak,who likes to post and then when proven wrong won't put the posts with the information on his blog.

    Nice to see you debate without the Nazi references,but unfortunately"

    Paulsstuff 8, Joe Green 0.

    Actually,i'm feeling pretty generous with the holidays and all.I'll give you the Klein one,even though i disagree.

    Paulsstuff 7, Joe Green 1

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 4:49 PM  

  • paulsstuff wrote...

    "7. Klein stated for some time he was not going to run again for re-election.This was when the pressure was applied to have him step aside. And once again Joe,how was your economy and provincial debt under Klein? Please answer that."

    Look let me straighten you out about Alberta and its balanced budget. In Alberta, Saddam Hussein could not avoid surplus budgets! Alberta has the second largest deposits of hydrocarbons in the world!

    But by any reasonable measure, Klein has mismanaged the Alberta economy and most of its institutions. The list is nearly endless. For example, Klein for ideological reasons alone fired over 4,500 nurses in Edmonton because he said Alberta was running out of money. For Alberta to run out of money is something like saying Saudi Arabia is running out of money. Never the less, a couple of years later, he had to bid up the price for nursing talent because he lost thousands of nurses who said enough was enough, and left the profession entirely. Now its almost impossible to get young student nurses to re-enter the profession, and the damage done to the nursing profession in Alberta is going to last for decades.

    He did the same shit to the teachers. All to appease right wing crazies from the US Republican Party that are setting up shop in Alberta and pretending to be "Conservatives". They are not. They are fascists.

    You in Ontario of course are free to vote as you wish, but you need to KNOW that Harpers Conservatives ARE NOT the same people that historically populated the Party of Sir John A MacDonald, the Party of Diefenbaker, the Party of Robert Stanfield, and the Party of Joe Clark.

    This party is a malignant fascist party that periodically blows in out of the west onto the political stage, only to disappear shortly thereafter.

    Canadians need to understand that there are no shortcuts. IF they wish to have a functioning and loyal Progressive Conservative Party, then they need to rebuild it from the ashes of the Mulroney Debacle, and they need to deal with brand name interlopers like the "neocons" travelling with Harper, Morton, Kenney, and the rest of that bunch.

    I could address the rest of your points, and I still may, but it seems to me that you are wearing rose coloured glasses. The bottom line is that the Harpercons are a foreign group of right wing extremists trying to seize control of Canada's government.

    Canadian Patriots should not allow that to happen.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 11:36 PM  

  • Lose the arguement vand go back to calling them facists.So sad.Under Klein,your economy has flourished,your debt eliminated,your taxes lowered,the value of your property skyrocketed,and unemployment dropped dramatically.Pretty bad record.It was under Klein the tarsands were finally used to their economic fullest.

    As for Harper,he simply wants Canada returned to the days of Mulroney,Clark,et al.It was the Liberals who decided to stick their noses in areas of provincial and municipal jurisdiction.It was also these same Liberals who cut $25 billion from health care to the provinces.Question Joe,how many times did the federal Liberals promise millions for the Toronto waterfront.Heres a hint,just count the number of elections between 1993 and 2006.Also,how many of these areas of jurisdiction did the Libs stick their nose in,only to see costs skyrocket as friends and relatives of the party.

    As for Klein getting fired,he actually had handed in his resignation letter effective October 2007,it was after he handed in his resignation that the party wanted things moved up and a new leader named sooner.

    As for me wearing rose-colored glasses,you put out points,i proved them wrong with facts to the contrary.

    So to correct things.

    Paulsstuff 8, Joe Green 0

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 1:07 PM  

  • paulsstuff said...

    "Lose the arguement vand go back to calling them facists. So sad. Under Klein,your economy has flourished, your debt eliminated,your taxes lowered, the value of your property skyrocketed, and unemployment dropped dramatically. Pretty bad record. It was under Klein the tarsands were finally used to their economic fullest."

    Before you come here saying stupid things about the Athabasca Tar Sands, go to Google Maps and have a look at the satellite imagery of the entire Athabasca River system from Ft. MacMurray north to Lake Athabasca.

    When you do that, and see that there are now exposed sandbars every mile or so, you will not be coming here saying stupid things about Klein's rapacious policies in resource development.

    And while you are there, go over to High Level and have a look at the moonscape that Klein Policies have created with clear cut logging practices in Northern Alberta.

    Stephane Dion will become Prime Minister, that is certain. Protecting the Environment with Harpercons and Tony Clement, the new Environment Minister that is going to replace the rookie Ambrose, is no contest at all.

    These "neocons" cannot walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. The environment is proof of that.

    Bye Bye Ms. American Pie!

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 7:16 PM  

  • Well I am an Albertan too.

    I distinctly remember the Klein government making cuts long before oil and gas prices began to rise.

    There were 5% rollbacks for all members of the civil service, including teachers and extensive layoffs in the first few years following Klein's election as Premier. The provincial liquor board was disbanded and liquor distribution privatized.

    A provincial law was passed outlawing deficit budgeting even when the price of oil was less than $20 per barrel.

    Klein made tough cuts and the accumulated debt was well on the way to being paid off by 2000 before oil prices began seriously rising.

    I am a Lyle Oberg supporter. He made a difference in every ministry that he served in but did an outstanding job in Education.

    But under no circumstances did he force Klein from office. Oberg's outspokeness got him booted from cabinet and caucus.

    It was the result of a party leadership vote that caused Klein to accelerate his already announced departure.

    By Blogger Down & Out in L A, at 10:24 AM  

  • First off,those logging practices are in place across Canada pretty much,is that Klein's fault.And what is the criteria the logging industry must follow when clear-cutting forests Joe?

    As for your statements on the rapacious nature of Klein with the tarsands,earlier it was you who stated none other than Saddam Hussein could have balanced the budget because of these oil reserves.So what are you saying now,the tarsands should not be developed?

    Good post down and out.When Klein came into power oil was selling pretty low,and Alberta like most other provinces had a debt problem.Klein addressed those problems well before the price of oil skyrocketed,a fact lost on Joe Green.And Joe,further proof Klein had already resigned,not gotten fired as you reported earlier.

    And this latest brilliant tidbit from Joe Green:

    "These "neocons" cannot walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. The environment is proof of that."

    Been in power since the end of January,yet all the pollution and enviromental damage done under 13 years of Liberal rule is their fault right?Hey Joe,guess who the enviro minister was who brought in "voluntary" targets for the oil industry in your province?Think real hard.

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 3:31 PM  

  • paulsstuff said a lot of nonsense about forestry and oil sands development policy in Alberta.

    Here are just a few places where Klein and the "neocons" went into the ditch with their misbegotten "policies".

    Alberta "forests" are not the same as "mono species" plantations that have been planted by some forestry companies after they have raped the land with clear cut logging practices. Had these dummies and pigs with Peter Elzinga bothered to educate themselves about modern forestry practices, such as takes place in Germany and Switzerland, most of this environmental damage in Alberta could have been avoided.

    Clear cut logging practices damage many different parts of the ecosystem simultaneously. Rivers and streams silt up, biological oxygen demand rises sharply as a result of dead and decaying plant and animal matter, and soils leach out of the hillsides and mountainsides, all known effects to the Government of Alberta.

    But the worst single offence is that the Government is utterly clueless about the technical things a modern government must know and understand to manage the environment and eco-systems.

    That is why the Klein government permitted the hunting of endangered species when American Hunters with NRA memberships came here to kill off already scarce and endangered species.

    But bad as the forestry policies and practices were, that pales in comparison to the utter mismanagement of the publicly owned mineral oil and gas resources of Alberta.

    The Athabasca River is now at record low levels, threatening wildlife along its entire course.

    The river is no longer navigable, and that is a federal responsibility. Prime Minister Jean Chretien should have kicked Ralph Klein's ass for these over uses of water in Alberta, but was afraid to rock the boat with Canada's still very fragile economy because of the rape and looting that took place during the Mulroney years that saw the public debt rise to over 650 billion dollars.

    The Feds SHOULD have shut down the Tar Sands until the American multinationals could PROVE that they could protect the environment with their tar sand mining operations.

    Engineers KNOW that carbon dioxide is vastly superior for tertiary oil and gas recovery in the oil fields, and that it can be used to simultaneously sequester CO2. In Saskatchewan, the oil industry is decades ahead of Alberta in this regard, where it has to import CO2 from Montana to keep up with its production, yet the "neocons" have been utterly unco-operative in advancing these advanced CO2 systems and methods in Alberta.

    Today Alberta pours over two and half times as much carbon dioxide into the air for the same amount of power produced by gas generators. This is because the Alberta power industry is overrun with cronyism and because of its backward management practices. That industry burns coal to produce most of the power, and yet, for Canada's energy province, Alberta is a NET IMPORTER of ELECTRIC POWER, having to tap into BOTH Saskatchewan and BC Hydro for the power it requires.

    In the meantime, out of control tar sand and heavy oil operators are burning high quality natural gas, to extract low quality crude oil from the tar sands. And of course there is utterly no accountability to the owners of the resources, the people of Alberta.

    Indeed, Alberta citizens today pay more for natural gas then do the people of California. The Alliance Pipeline ships out raw products without ANY upgrading processing in the Province. Its a rape by any other name.

    Finally, the Alberta PCs under Klein were brain dead to new technology, such as nuclear power to clean up the environment and produce sufficient energy for our own requirements.

    Just check out how dumb the Klein "deregulation policies" for power have proven to be. Never a week goes by when the spot price of power varies from somewhere around $0.01 per KWH up to over $0.99 per KWH and often within the same 24 hour period.

    Of course the Kleinites all consulted with ENRON in installing this "market system".

    The list is endless, and the only remedy is to replace the PCs en mass, as took place with the old decrepid Social Credit Government of Earnest Manning.

    And compared to the tempest in a teapot in the Quebec Liberal Party where the Mounties have charged one individual with the theft of some $1.8 million dollars, under Klein, the provincial treasury was looted to the tune of over $28 billion, most of it in rotten and corrupt "loan guarantees" to "friends of the party".

    As for the money that the "neocons" and the Klein government squandered in Alberta, this certainly was on a scale of corruption that matched anything that Saddam ever did.

    So when the PCs rejected Dinning et al, they certainly understood what Dr. Oberg was talking about when he was referring to Peter Pocklington's skeletons.

    The worst single feature of the Klein government however has to be its close links with corrupt American multinational companies, like ENRON.

    Can Ed Stelmach save the party, or will he become the Harry Strom of the PC party?

    We shall see. What I do know, is that the Calgary "neocons" are now on the outside looking in. And that has to be good for Alberta and Canada.

    By Blogger Joe Green, at 9:00 PM  

  • If you want to bring up loan guaranteesmdig a little and see what Bombardier got during the Liberals 13 years in power.Next,try and find out how much of these billions was repaid.

    As for your rant on clear cutting forestsmit goes on all across Canada.Try looking at B.C and its clear cut logging.Or Newfoundland and Labrador.Sa,e thing,and last i checked,neither Klein or the Alberta Conservative party are in charge there.

    As for nuclear power,its a wonderful idea,but the Pickering generation plant near me is a perfect example of why many governments are reluctant to invest in it.I've lost track of how many billions they have spent on thus thing over the years and its still never running at normal capacity.

    As for comparing Alberta's oil industry to Saskatchewan,seems like a huge differance in size of ongoing production.

    I do agree its sad how much our enviroment is destroyed by industry.But no government,regardless of leader or party,has the balls to do anything about it.Much of Quebec has seen enviromental damage from logging.Do you think Dion would curtail this industry if he was PM?Not a chance.

    Your remark about Chretien was interesting.So your saying Chretien put money before the enviroment.Hmmmm.And one of his ministers was Dion.

    By Blogger paulsstuff, at 11:27 PM  

  • I buy electricity for my employer and am chair of the organization that opposed electrical deregulation in Alberta for years.

    For those that want the facts and respect accuracy, go to this site:

    Forming a responsible opposition and appearing as a credible alternative requires a degree of self control.

    We may turn more people off than we attract with hysterical rants so it may be time to consider the purpose and value of the discussion.

    When the audience and participants diminish to two or three, the topic may have run its course.

    By Blogger Down & Out in L A, at 11:47 AM  

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