Wednesday, May 07, 2008

No brussel sprouts for dessert if you don't finish your dinner!

OSLO — Canada will be probed on suspicion of violating rules for registering greenhouse gases that are the mainstay of a UN-led fight against global warming, official documents show.

Ottawa could be suspended from rights to trade carbon dioxide if found to be in breach of the rules by the enforcement branch of the UN's Kyoto Protocol. Greece was suspended last month, the first nation to face such a sanction under Kyoto.

Just so we're clear. Canada is going to be punished for not meeting targets we no longer really care about meeting. And the punishment?

Canada won't be allowed to buy credits - something we have no intention of doing - to meet a target we have no intention of meeting.



  • This is a good example of why we were right to ignore Kyoto. The overgoverned Europeans would be dictating the rules. Their supra-national socialist regimes that believe what is good for them, in their postage stamp sized countries, is good for everyone. They think they have the lock on righteousness. They remind me of the NDP.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:57 p.m.  

  • This comment has been removed by the author.

    By Blogger leonsp, at 7:05 p.m.  

  • Nice mindless partisanship leonsp. Firstly, whether or not Canada reduces emissions will have little bearing on whether there are hurricanes in Halifax, etc. Global warming is a global problem - failing to reduce emissions in Canada doesn't mean that the impacts will be felt in Canada.

    Secondly, tariffs are a particularly dumb suggestion. With free trade between countries, each specializes in whatever goods a country has a comparative advantage in. As a result, production costs, which include labour - but also include raw materials and, if you had a decent emissions trading system, C02 emissions. Protectionism would only mean growth in inefficient domestic industries - meaning more wasteful use of the world's resources. For instance, if you put tariffs on Canadian and American agricultural goods, you would see a massive rise in the already rising price of food - increasing the cost of biofuels (and trouble for the starving).

    The mechanism you are proposing is used by the WTO. How effective is limited reciprocity (which is used by the WTO)? Well it seems to have worked in a few cases, but in many others, states with potential grievances have not opted to use the stick of limited reciprocity because it hurts them to do so (eg. Canada and the softwood lumber case). Moreover, the better your enforcement mechanism is, the harder it will be to get international consensus behind a deal. Without international consensus, emissions reduced elsewhere can be more than made up for in the Chinas in the world.

    Global warming IS a problem, but it doesn't make sense to jump on board a solution that clearly won't work.

    By Blogger french wedding cat, at 8:13 p.m.  

  • CG,

    come home to sanity! join us on the dark side!

    By Blogger Tarkwell Robotico, at 8:37 p.m.  

  • “The enforcement branch, a panel of legal experts, had warned Canada last month that it risked scrutiny over alleged shortfalls in its greenhouse gas registry. It said Canada missed a Jan. 1, 2007, reporting deadline by more than two months.

    “A national registry is a computerized system used to track holdings of greenhouse gas credits, similar to the computerized accounting system of a bank,” it said.

    Proper tracking of emissions is the backbone of Kyoto, which binds 37 industrialized nations to cut emissions by an average of 5 per cent below 1990 levels by 2008-2012 in a bid to avert ever more droughts, floods, heat waves and rising seas.”

    It’s obvious that the New Government has no interest in international co-operation on climate change. Its still in denial on climate change in Canada.

    We will have to replace the NG with a Better Government.

    By Blogger JimTan, at 12:29 a.m.  

  • And the preceeding government, the one that signed Kyoto KNOWING the targets couldn't be reached, DIDN'T GET THE JOB DONE.

    Maybe Dion should have proposed his carbon tax when he was enviro minister, and sitting on the 8th consecutive surplus .... no, wait until they are in opposition, Canada is on the brink, and then go for the gusto.

    Just another Liberal hairyfairy leftie idea to win Dipper and Green votes, once in office....

    By Blogger wilson, at 2:16 a.m.  

  • “And the preceeding government, the one that signed Kyoto KNOWING the targets couldn't be reached, DIDN'T GET THE JOB DONE”

    Why linger on the past? We all made mistakes based on the available information.

    The IPCC Third Assessment Report, Climate Change 2001 was not as conclusive as the 2007 4th IPCC report. The speed at which the climate is changing is astonishing and accelerating.

    We need to focus on the future of our children. Let’s be rational.

    By Blogger JimTan, at 2:48 a.m.  

  • keep clinging to kyoto

    the indians and chinese will show us the way, with $3,000 cars etc.

    By Blogger Unknown, at 9:14 a.m.  

  • jimtan, if you are talking about a need to have substantial reductions in emissions over the past 11 years, don't you think the fact that 9 out of the 11 were botched (increasing emissions more than Dubya) puts folks in the last 2 at risk?

    Do you actually want Canada to try to meet its Kyoto targets on time at this point, given the tremendous cost, and dubious gain. I mean, whether Canada cleans up its act in 2012 or 2022 makes little difference in the grand scheme of things. They key is that we do it.

    The hammer of "we need to meet Kyoto" being employed by the opposition ensures that we won't get anything done, because that position is so obviously unrealistic and unfeasible. If the Liberals came to power today they similarly would be unable to meet Kyoto, or at least unwilling to pay the insanely high costs needed to reduce emissions 25% in one year.

    Part of the problem is this buck-passing issue we see - perhaps the solution lies in a similar mechanism to the way monetary policy is delivered. The problem with monetary policy is that when governments control it, they pump the presses at election time. What if we put environmental policy outside the hands of our democratically elected government, instead, parliament could appoint a commissioner every four years, who would set national quotas each year, and direct the selling of tradeable emissions permits (allowing emissions up to the level of the quota).

    By Blogger french wedding cat, at 2:14 p.m.  

  • “I mean, whether Canada cleans up its act in 2012 or 2022 makes little difference in the grand scheme of things.”

    Let me give an overview. The Kyoto Accord (Kyoto) was created as recognition that our carbon footprint has consequences for the planet. Kyoto was to be merely the first of several international agreements.

    The Kyoto Accord has a target date of 2012, after which there was to be a successor accord embracing the rapidly growing Less Developed Countries (LDC). The rich nations would set the example for 2012 because they are responsible for most of the incremental accumulated greenhouse gases.

    From wikipedia,

    ‘The objective is to achieve "stabilization of greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere at a level that would prevent dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system.’

    The economics are clear. There are large costs and considerable restructuring required for “stabilization of greenhouse gas concentrations.” It is cheaper and less painful to begin sooner, than to apply an emergency program at a later stage.

    There is the fear that a tipping point may be reached when climate change is irreversible because of reinforcement loops. The ultimate consequences of global warming would be catastrophic for all nations, though some regions may benefit.

    Since 1999, new data and analysis have been very unsettling. Climate change is proceeding at an accelerating pace. The tipping point (IMO) for action may be reached within another generation. At that time, the cost of remedial action may be so large that we will not have the courage to do it. So, we had better get started now.

    The western European countries are (on the whole) on target for 2012. America and Canada are not. Don’t point fingers. We must work with what we are given.

    The bigger problem is the LDC like China and India. We have been de-industrializing. The LDC inherited the smokestack industries because they export to us.

    Therefore, a post-Kyoto Accord is needed to set a game plan for all of the significant polluters; the rich and the rising.

    Canada has to do its part in order to encourage the LDC to do theirs. Otherwise, we will argue pointlessly until the tipping point is reached.

    The next American administration may or may not do its part. That is irrelevant to us. We must accept responsibility for our share of the problem and do our part.

    We will not meet the Kyoto targets by 2012. But, we can make real commitments now that will get us back into the game. Forget this 2050 nonsense propagated by the New Government.

    There are several strategies. We will see what we can agree to. Even a flawed strategy will be better than none.

    By Blogger JimTan, at 6:23 p.m.  

  • Hey jimtan. Glad to see your comment about Dion's lack of action being old news. I have to wonder, though, if forgiveness for old sins only applies to Liberals because I sure didn't see much of it when Mr. Lewiwiski was being raked over the coals for a 17 year old comment.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:11 p.m.  

  • “have to wonder, though, if forgiveness for old sins only applies to Liberals because I sure didn't see much of it when Mr. Lewiwiski was being raked over the coals for a 17 year old comment.”

    Dear Powell,
    I didn’t make any comments about Tom Lukiwski’s old gaffe. Please correct me if you can find an example.

    I didn’t say that I have forgiven the old Liberal Party. Chretien should get the same treatment as Mulroney if there is a Schreiber equivalent. Until then, I don’t see the point of investing time in raking over old history.

    I said we still need to get the job done. Therefore, we need a Better Government. I’ll go with dion if he is the best deal available despite his manifest flaws. We’ll see if he can win an election and put himself in a position to get the job done.

    I have severely criticized dion‘s ability to be Party Leader and Opposition Leader. I have never criticized his integrity or good intentions.

    We have to be fair to dion. He became Minister in July 2004. The Kyoto Accord came into force only in February 2005 (see wikipedia). And, Paul Martin’s struggling government fell in January 2006.

    By Blogger JimTan, at 1:55 a.m.  

  • By Blogger jeje, at 3:41 a.m.  

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